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FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/03/2017 7:52 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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I have not yet gotten around to rebuilding the carburetor I have to do a real test.  I have sent out two sets of these to other people to test (4-5 months ago) and have never herd back from them.  This project is stalled until I either find the time to rebuild the the carb I have or unless I hear back from those that said they were willing to test for me.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Added a new page to my DazeCars webpages "Mustang IRS Success Stories" » 3/31/2017 1:16 PM

Daze
Replies: 3

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I have updated Page V of this install and Uploaded page VI. Please let me know what you think and if there is any info I could provide to help you if you are wanting to do a similar project.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Added a new page to my DazeCars webpages "Mustang IRS Success Stories" » 3/29/2017 4:13 PM

Daze
Replies: 3

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I have driven it, but not very far, basically on and off the lift.  Tons of other things on this car still need work so I will not be driving it for real any time soon.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Added a new page to my DazeCars webpages "Mustang IRS Success Stories" » 3/26/2017 11:44 PM

Daze
Replies: 3

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http://dazecars.com/dazed/SuccessIRS/2dkg1gi.jpg

Its about several Mustangs running around with Jaguar IRS loosly based on what I designed for my own Mustang.  

http://dazecars.com/dazed/JaguarIRSSuccess.html

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » reengineering steering arm on my Galaxie to improve turning radius » 3/09/2017 10:39 PM

Daze
Replies: 8

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Greg B wrote:

I see you mentioned the length of the lever having much to do with the turning radius speed,  does the length also have anything to do with the force needed to turn?   How does that all compare to LTDII or Granada spindles?  Dont go out of your way to find out, just curious if you have measured those spindles to compare.    

Nice work btw.

Thanks!!

The LTD II spindles have the same geometry as the galaxie spindles (thats what I have on the car now and the same steering arm length)   Granada spindles have about the same steering arm length might be about .5" shorter if memory serves but the Ackerman angle is different.
 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » reengineering steering arm on my Galaxie to improve turning radius » 3/08/2017 5:13 PM

Daze
Replies: 8

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Just thought I would share the post I have made on a thread I started on my galaxie forum.

On the Galaxie forum on 3/01/17 Daze wrote:

I am working on modifying my steering arms to correct the reduced turning radios after installing home built R&P setup. 

In the long run the arm will be cut from angle iron but as I design it I will probably make it out of wood. (more to come)  I think I have figured it out and  have started the process today of building a fixture that will locate the OEM mounting location and orientation.  I need this so I can completely cut off the original arms to get them out of my way as I design the new arm.    Best part is  I think I have a fixture design that can be used for both sides by making it two piece and bolting the two pieces together I can remove the pieces reverse them and bolt them back together.  More to come as the project develops.

 

On the Galaxie forum on 3/04/17 Daze wrote:

 The first thing I did was build a fixture to hold the spindle and locate the two important points, the spindle pivot point, the OEM tie rod location.   
http://imageshack.com/a/img922/5438/FSeSEx.jpg

You need these points to insure the correct Ackerman angle.  Ackerman is what allows the inside tire (when turning) to turn more sharply than the outside tire.  Ideal Ackerman (not all cars use ideal Ackerman) is calculated by drawing a line from the spindle pivot to the center of the rear axle.  

http://dazecars.com/dazed/Mustangsuspension/ackermanangle.jpg

As long as the tie rod mount is some where along that line than Ackerman will be correct.  The closer it is to the spindle pivot the quicker the arm will turn and the further away the slower.  In my case I have less steering travel so will need it to turn quicker. Before starting I used a piece of string and confirmed that the Ackerman angle on my car was ideal.

Once I had the two points I took the jig apart and located where the new tie-rod loc

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 11/14/2016 11:59 AM

Daze
Replies: 31

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I received a PM that I thought others would be interested in:

Daze
Thank you for your information on carbs! Can you help clarify an item. It is my understanding that Hipo mustangs had 1.12 Venturi's but a different primary. This is what gave the horsepower without sucking all the gas! Otherwise it's very inefficient. Seems by reducing the Venturi you made a 1.08 but would still have the issue with the primary?
Thank you!

Besides sleeving I plan to change jet size and boosters.  The smaller venturi will allow for better throttle response.  I have also purchased smaller jets for my carb, I went from 55/64 to 48/55.  the third piece to this puzzle is the boosters.  The ones that came on my carb, especially the one from the secondaries has huge booster tubes.  I plan on first trying it with these boosters and then I will swap them out for a combination of boosters with smaller tubes.  I got two different booster sets off of a some two barrel carbs I had for parts.  It will be more trial and error than exact science but I think if I go with the smallest booster I have in the front and the next biggest in the back I can probably get it close.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 11/11/2016 4:55 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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Ok finally an update.  I have not yet had time to rebuild the carb that is my test platform however there is someone on this form that has a 4100 ready to go so I am sending him a set of inserts to test.  The final design is very short but still hangs down far enough to be a snug fit in the bore.http://imageshack.com/a/img923/6868/UYI8gU.jpg


The fluting on the top has not changed and they look just like the ones in the picture I posted earlier, and again below.
http://imageshack.com/a/img921/1722/OgOVCD.jpg

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/29/2016 11:53 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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Jon Richard wrote:

When you say the size of the openings are you referring to the physical dimension of the booster venturi itself where the annular fuel discharge holes are housed?

I am referring to the holes on the under side of the main booster body next to the tubes.  In this pic I borrowed from the net it is the hole that is under the vertical arrow.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/au/um_10725/mymach/2100-03.jpg

 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/29/2016 6:00 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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Jon Richard wrote:

Your thread got me excited about these carbs again and I've bought two more rare/ unique 4100's since you've posted and have done some more measuring- you bad influence!

I have a few Edsel 4100's from '58 that have 1.06" primary venturi size, thats the closest in size Ford produced to what you have. I could measure the booster orifices with precision for comparison should you decide to really play with the fuel curve.

That's me trying to influence you ;)

I like being a bad influence. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png
 this project is going along all be it slow.  I got some size 48 jets to put in the front and I will move the original 55 front jets to the back.  I have the rebuild kit and the "bugs" worked out of my inserts.  now all I need to do is get all the parts cleaned up, an put it all back together. 

As to messing with the boosters I think I have a plan there as well.  The openings for the primary boosters are small but the openings for the secondary boosters are huge, they are labeled B and C with B being the bigger one from the secondaries and C being the smaller one from the primaries.  I also have two other autolite carbs that I collected over the years, both are 2 barrel.  One came from a 69 pickup with a 360 in it and the other was the carb that came on the 352 that was in my galaxie when I got it.  I have pulled the boosters from both of those carbs and one is stamped AA and the other is stamped D.  Both have smaller openings than the the B booster from the 4 barrel carb's secondaries but are slightly larger than the C booster.  What I think I will do is run the 4100 as it came from the factory (with the exception of smaller jets) after I finish the rebuild.  I will then install the inserts and see what kind of a difference they make in performance.  After that I will swap out the secondary booster for one of the smaller ones and see if the carb functions even better.

funny thing is this is

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/24/2016 1:15 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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boomyal wrote:

Daze, is your 'die' such that you would be able to turn those reducers out in mass?

 
Yes that is the plan, but only if I can meet the following criteria: first it has to work and work well, I won't sell them if it only sort of works. Second I need to be able to make them quickly and easily and still be a quality piece so that I can keep the costs down. I like all my products to be as affordable as possible.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/23/2016 10:00 AM

Daze
Replies: 31

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After several different changes to my die and a couple of different adapter designs I now have what I think is going to be the best adapter I can make with what I have, spreadbore adapter 2.0.  These insets have more of a flair to them and they match the contours of the carb body better.  They are also shorter which means it doesn't need to be notched to clear the tube, and the shorter sleeve has less change to the shape of the original carb bore.

http://imageshack.com/a/img921/181/wY1GJ4.jpg


The sleve on the right inside the carb has been worked to have a smooth transition but the one on the left still needs to be  feathered.
http://imageshack.com/a/img921/1722/OgOVCD.jpg

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/10/2016 11:11 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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Greg B wrote:

Perfect those inserts and you might just make a small fortune selling them!  

That is a long ways out but is somthing I thought of when I first started this project.  if I can make it simple enough to work well in most applications than its a go.  As I was flaring the pipe I came up with a custom die design so that I can make them all the same.  

boomyal wrote:

Will you use any locktite on them once you make a final determination as to their suitability?  Being an AutoLite fan, I'll be anxious to see the outcome.  Are you going to be able to make any comparisons of the boosters?
 

I really dont think Locktite will be needed. With the lip on the top and the vent tube in the bore there is no way for the part to drop down into the bore, and with them being a slight press fit I don't expect them to work up and out.  When I installed them I was able to press them in by hand but once fully seated I had to use a brass punch and small hammer to get them back out.  As to the boosters I have nothing to compare them too so I really can't say what the differences are.

Jon Richard, Thanks for posting the pix!!!  I searched the net hoping to find pictures (why reinvent the wheel) but never could find anything.​

MS wrote:

Nice fab work. Can't wait to see how it runs.
I really like your willingness to tear into something and try out a theory.

Thanks!!  for me thats the fun part.  in fact often times it takes me a long time to fully finish a project because once I have all the bugs worked out of something its not as fun.  I like the problem solving and the challenge of creating something from nothing or making a part work well in a way that it was never intended to work. 

 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/09/2016 10:22 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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Thanks!!  its hard to tell in the pix but the leading edge is actually feathered.  Its angled to match the carb and then the inside lip is rounded off for a smoother transition.  I polished up the copper after I shaped it and the flash off the polish is what is making it look more like a normal lip.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 7/09/2016 8:32 PM

Daze
Replies: 23

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I made an update to this project in a new thread.  Figured I would mention it so those of you who are following this thread would know about the new one.
 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/09/2016 8:29 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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wsinsle wrote:

were you able to get a measurement on the final venture?

I never thought to measure the new bore.  When I was measuring to find a suitable tube I was only worried about the OD of the pipe so that it would fit properly.  I figured what ever fit would be what I had to use and as long as it was at least 1" I would be good to go.

I went out to the garage and put a bore gage in the sleeves and they came in at 1.05".  I know its a little less than the 1.08" but I don't really see the need to try an enlarge the bore of the sleeves.  The smaller bore should give better throttle response and if the engine needs more air the vacuum secondaries should come open to compensate.
 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/09/2016 7:12 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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Bolted to Floor wrote:

Hey Daze, The pictures aren't there.

Might want to try a refresh or somthing on your computer.  The pix are coming up on my computer and I also pulled this thread up on my phone and the pix are there.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Modifying an Autolite 4100 1.12 to work on a small block 302 » 7/09/2016 6:37 PM

Daze
Replies: 31

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A few weeks back I made a post needing trouble shooting help with an autolite 1.12 4100 that I was trying to make work on the 302 in my 62 Galaxie.  After much discussion and trouble shooting I found that it was a vacuum leak and was able to get it working OK but not as good as the Edelbrock I had removed to install the Autolite.  Obviously the 1.12 carb that I have was setup for a big block and my 302 even though performance is no big block.  Throughout the discussion on that thread I was given a couple pieces of key information, first Pony Carbs use to sell plastic inserts to convert the 1.12 carb into what they call a "spread-bore" carb.  They worked simply by sizing down the venturi.   Further research on the net provided info where a guy used a plumbing adapter to modify his 4100.  his attempt while functional was a little crude for my tastes.  The second piece of info I receive from my previous thread was a link to a carb forum that after a little searching provided tons of info on this "spread -bore" mod as well as some suggestions as to jet size.

My plan after doing the research was to rebuild the Carburetor, replace the jets, and make my own sleeves.  The rebuild has begun. I have a rebuild kit, and have fully disassembled the carb.  The jest that came in the carb were 55/62 and I need 49/55 so I will order some 49 jets to replace the front ones and move the original front jets to the rear.  The sleeves were the next thing to tackle.  I made a set out of some coper pipe.  I cut it to length and faced both ends on my lathe.  I then flanged the top of the sleeves and cut a notch in the bottom of the sleeves.  Once I had the rough shape I had to slightly work the outside of sleeves with sandpaper to get a nice fit in the bore of the carb.  The final result is a sleeve that can be pressed in tightly by hand.

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/5425/nRpXKA.jpg


as you can see from

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 6/22/2016 4:43 PM

Daze
Replies: 23

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Jon Richard wrote:

What gasket did you get? I haven't found one that fits the way I'd like and have been rolling my own.

The rebuild kit came with the correct gasket.  I wanted to try it but didn't want to use the one in the kit until after the rebuild so I traced it on to a sheet of gasket material and then cut it out with a razor blaze and some hole punches.

boomyal wrote:

What intake manifold are you running it on?  If it was an Edelbrock, Holley or Weiend, it needs an adapter plate.

I am running an Edelbrock intake and even from the beginning it had a spacer plate on there.  The spacer has the vacuum port for the PCV valve.  As I was going through my box of carb parts I found another 4-barrel spacer plate that is 1/4" thick that I had forgotten about.  It came with the 4100 on the 61 galaxie I parted out.  I compared that spacer to the gaskets I was trying to use and realized that a vacuum leak was probably my problem in fact I had to use both e 1" spacer and the factory 1/4" spacer to get the carb to seal correctly
 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 6/22/2016 9:51 AM

Daze
Replies: 23

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Update, I solved 90% of my problems.  I didn't realize the 4100 needs a special base gasket and I had a vacuum leak.  After making the correct gasket I was able to get the car running fairly well, it still has some issues but I am hoping to address them in the rebuild and sleeving.  I will let you know how it goes as things progress.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 6/21/2016 11:01 AM

Daze
Replies: 23

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Jon Richard wrote:

To get it "really right" you'll need to map your fuel curve and be prepared to make changes to things like the idle air bleeds and emulsion tubes- jet changes and power valves won't get you there.

I totally agree with you that there is more to this than jet size and venturi size however I don't have the knowledge base to change more than those two things.  It will be interesting to see if it can be "made to work", and if so how well with the modifications I can make.  

The reality is that setting up a carburetor to function with the best fuel curve and efficiency is no where near a "one size fits all" proposition and more of a "one size fits one" kind of thing.

If you take a carburetor and tune it for a bone stock 289 and get it dialed in to be a perfect mach for that engine, you could put that carb on any 289 that is set up the same way and is bing used for the same type of application and the carburetor should function equally as well on the second engine.  However if you leave it on the first engine and begin making changes, than the perfect tune is going to move away from being perfect as changes are made.  Headers, aluminum intake and heads as well as a change in cam specs when changed from bone stock will basically make that engine totally different from the carburetor's perspective.  I know that some carburetors are less effected by changes, but others are far more sensitive.

I have to wonder if that is why the 4100 has the reputation of being such a fantastic carb when set up correctly but also has so many issues when not correctly matched.  Is it possible that it is less resilient to change?  I compare it to the edelbrock performer.  You can take a 600 CFM edelbrock and put it on a 289, 302, 337, 347, 351W, 351C, 352FE or 390FE (all set up is configurations from stock to performance) and get it to work well with out changing the jets or modifying anything in the carb, yes it would be better with the correct tune but can

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 6/20/2016 10:39 AM

Daze
Replies: 23

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boomyal, Thanks for the link to the carb forum!!  I have done a lot of reading and what I have found tells me that if I sleeve the venturi and change the jets I should have a carburetor that is good for any SB however it will be almost perfectly suited for my SB because it is in my Galaxie.  I found it interesting as I was reading that the difference between the 1.08 and the 1.12 carbs has more to do with car size and how the weight of the car loads the engine rather than venturi size.  That is why the big block 1.08 carbs still don't do as well on most small blocks because most small blocks are in small cars.  I could be totally wrong but once I get my Carb rebuilt and setup for my 302 it should be about perfect for my application. at least that is what I am hoping

Its nice to find a nugget   What I mean to say is, like I said before, I have heard from many that the 1.08 will not work at all on a small block and I have heard from many others that it can be made to work well.  Obviously both side are correct based on their experience.  I knew that variables like displacement and how the engine is set up were obviously factors, but the weight of the car is a major factor that I hadn't considered and is the "nugget" I attribute to so many conflicting results. 

I will post more as this project comes together.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 6/18/2016 11:19 PM

Daze
Replies: 23

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Thanks to everyone who responded.  there is lots of good info here that I can use.

Pablo wrote:

Check the primary throttle shaft for wear - usually on the throttle linkage side.  Just wiggle the throttle lever up and down and side to side.  There should be very little wiggle.  And, check for the secondaries closing smoothly.  They can get gunked up and not close fully.

Good things to check, however those things were fine, I checked both of them before the carb went on the car.

Pablo wrote:

I have a 1.12 on my 302 and it runs well.  It was a "quadrajet" conversion done by Jon at Pony Carbs probably 15 years ago.  He took the 1.12 carb, and put plastic inserts into the primary venturi to get the carb down to the 380 cfm or so.  It worked really well for about 12 years, then the ignition coil went bad, I got a backfire through the carb, and it melted the venturi inserts. 

I am glad you mentioned the "Spreadbore " technique that poneycarb used.  I found a FAQ from their old website with info on the mod.  I also found several pages where inserts were made using a copper tubing reducer.  The way they did t leave a little something to be desired but I believe I can use their idea and do the same with a little finesse

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010718.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010717.jpg

bulletbirdman wrote:

Daze,
Take a look at the power valve I've found these corroded up even in running carbs, off idle to around 2k is where these operate.

Jon Richard wrote:

I would venture to guess the idle circuit could use a blast of cleaner and compressed air and the primary float needle dried out and isn't seating well.

It would be well worth your time to get a Echlin rebuild kit from Napa. The beauty of the 4100 is its simplicity, I actually find it a joy to tear down and reassembl

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » I need an autolite 4100 carburetor expert » 6/16/2016 4:04 PM

Daze
Replies: 23

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Backstory:
About 10 years back I parted out a 61 Galaxie to part out and the engine came with a 600 CFM Autolite 4100.  As I was parting out the car I was able to fire it up and drive it in and out of the garage to work on it.  Carb worked well no issues and when the time came I removed the carburetor, drained the fuel from it and put it on the shelf.  I heard rumors about how good these carburetors are and figured I would install it on something eventually.

Recently:
I decided to replace the Edelbrock 600 CFM carb currently on the 302 in my Galaxie with the Autolite 4100 that had been sitting on the shelf for years.  The install was simple and the engine fired right up.  (started with the setting the carb had had on its previous engine idle mixture screws two turn out) above 2000 RPMs engine runs well, you can feather the throttle and there is no hesitation, rough running or issues.  From 1500 RPMs to 2000 RPMs it runs rough but in a "mechanical" sort of way, what I mean is if the idle speed screw is set so the minimum RPM is 1500 than it will hold there for a few seconds, surge up to 1700 RPMs and hold there for a few seconds before changing again.) below 1500 RPMs it stumbles down in RPMs about 200 RPMs at a time (each stumble holding there for a few seconds)  until it drops own around 500 RPMs and dies.  I have tried adjusting the idle mixture screws both in and out and they seam to have no effect.  I have also had the top of the carb of and it is not filled with junk or coated with varnish.  Carb has a manul choke so I know that that is not the issue. Any suggestions as to what might be wrong with this carb and or how to fix it??

Board footera


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