FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

7/03/2017 12:38 PM  #1


Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Been digging, prodding, problem solving on the Galaxie wiring for over two weeks.  Completely frustrated trying to make heads or tails of the splices and such under the dash.  Still have not gotten the turn signals working properly.   I have had success with the wiper, headlights, clock, and radio.   This original wiring is old and frustrating, and the 5 fuse fusebox is on the opposite side of the headlight switch.  

Thinking about just starting from scratch and rewiring the entire car.  Never done this before, is there anything in particular I should look for?   I suspect part of the problem may be in the turn signal switch itself, and its not a cheapie.

My other option is to steal/switch the wiring out of the 4 door.  I know its all clean and right, that said, 55 years old.    


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

7/03/2017 2:32 PM  #2


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Greg,
I just got through fighting with my turn signal and brake lights on my '65 Mustang. I found a NOS Ford turn signal switch (on eBay) and brake light switch. The install was pretty straight forward and the Ford parts solved my problems. I have heard of too many problems with the repro turn signal switches.

If your wiring installation is hard and cracked, you will probably be money ahead to buy a kit for Fords and rewire. Be careful with the wiring kits, some suppliers use GM connectors for all brands of kits.

 

7/03/2017 3:21 PM  #3


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Not sure what's available for the Galaxie.  I know for the Mustang for example you can buy literally every stitch of wiring in the car.  I completely rewired mine about two years back using repro harnesses.  Everything fit well, and works perfectly.  I replaced some original wiring with questionable splices, and some repro stuff from 20+ years ago that wasn't up to snuff for a variety of reasons.  I don't worry if I have to splice or modify these harnesses; they aren't original and if they ever fail I'll just buy new ones.  I'm not sure how far from stock I'll eventually go, but for my purposes, for now, this approach worked just fine.  It saved me the huge hassle of using one of those universal fit wiring kits that are very expensive and a royal PITA to install (almost nothing is preterminated).  I've installed those before and in a car this old you end up with a bunch of butt splices to install proper OEM type terminals.  Each splice takes time and is also a potential failure point, even when soldered and shrink wrapped.  Why start off that way?  Adding an auxiliary fuse box if you need more circuits is way easier than trying to install one of those 18-22 circuit kits from Painless, etc.

 

7/03/2017 4:12 PM  #4


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

I feel your pain.  I just wrapped up rewiring bumper to bumper my 66 mustang.  In my situation I needed to by two different harnesses because of the engine swap.  I bought the EFI harness and the chassis harness.  Set me back around $1500 as I recall.  I'm glad I did it.  I'm even more glad I didn't pay someone else to do it for me.  I learned a lot and not just about cars but electronics in general.  I'd have a lot of advice but I won't bore you with it here.  The harness that came with my ride was just so cut, chopped, spliced, and diced I got so fed up and just yanked it all out.  It helps to know what's there. 

 

7/03/2017 4:47 PM  #5


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

call this place ,  might be able to make anything you need

http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/  

 

7/08/2017 8:54 PM  #6


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

I was going to replace the entire harness in my car and had one ex-auto electrician friend and two practicing auto electricians who have had lots of old car experience talk me out of it. In the end I had one of the auto electricians come around, fit some new switches and relays and all seems good to go now. Cost me a bit, but I am not an electrical guy and I just wanted it to work right.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

7/08/2017 9:02 PM  #7


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Whatever works.  I'm wasn't an electrical guy and I rewired a mustang bumper to bumper.  YouTube, patience, and willingness to learn go a long way.

 

7/08/2017 9:09 PM  #8


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

TremendousWand wrote:

Whatever works.  I'm wasn't an electrical guy and I rewired a mustang bumper to bumper.  YouTube, patience, and willingness to learn go a long way.

Agreed... The Auto Electricians I spoke to, kept saying that the wiring should still be good, so in the end I just trusted them after seeking three opinions.
 


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

7/09/2017 3:18 PM  #9


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Im currently waiting on a turn signal switch.   Really nothing else left.   I think if I still find no joy, I am going to steal the underdash wiring out of the 4 door, maybe even bench trace with both until I solve it.   

To show you what I am sorting through, one of the problems with the wiper was a previous owner took the lead wire going into the wiper switch about an inch from the switch itself, spliced into it, and used it for the lead into a aftermarket volt meter.  then side coming out went back into the wiper switch.   Things like that.  

Cant seem to get power to the blower motor yet, either.  I know the blower motor runs.    

I will eventually get it sorted out.    I have a color blow up wiring diagram that helps.     
 


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

7/09/2017 6:37 PM  #10


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

I've been looking at Rebel Wire. They have several kits designed for 60s/70s muscles cars. Not custom but with a little work would adapt to my 66. Made in USA. Wires are marked every 6" etc. I don't know anything about the company but the price is between $250 and $350. That's what got my attention. Compared to Paimless and others at twice the price.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

7/09/2017 7:11 PM  #11


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

BillyC wrote:

I've been looking at Rebel Wire. They have several kits designed for 60s/70s muscles cars. Not custom but with a little work would adapt to my 66. Made in USA. Wires are marked every 6" etc. I don't know anything about the company but the price is between $250 and $350. That's what got my attention. Compared to Paimless and others at twice the price.

If the ends are not preterminated its going to be a lot of work.  Knowing what the wire does is a nice feature, but a schematic is still important, and a lot of places do not provide them.  The Painless kits for the vehicles I've used them on are close enough that a factory schematic will 80-95% work, depending on how many additional circuits you add.  Not stumping for Painless either, IMO they are overpriced and have plenty of issues too.  Even if I were planning a highly modified car with power everything, etc. I would still start with quality reproduction factory harnesses.  I'd rather add an auxiliary fuse box for those additional circuits and retain the integrity and engineering of the factory harnesses.  Installation is also very easy.  The hardest part is having to take stuff apart to snake the harnesses through the car.  The underdash in particular is hard, but its also often the most abused harness in the car, so well worth it. 
 

 

7/09/2017 9:48 PM  #12


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

As far as I know, no one makes a reproduction harness for the 63 Galaxie.  I think the closest might be a company that just started making a reproduction underdash harness for the 63 Ford Falcon.    Pictures look very similar to the set up.   

 


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

7/10/2017 5:01 AM  #13


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

There are companies that can restore your harness if it needs it, so if no reproduction is available I'd look into that.  There was a name given on this forum once, but it escapes me at the moment.

 

7/10/2017 6:40 AM  #14


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

TKOPerformance wrote:

There are companies that can restore your harness if it needs it, so if no reproduction is available I'd look into that.  There was a name given on this forum once, but it escapes me at the moment.

http://midlife66.com/harnesses/


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

7/10/2017 11:16 AM  #15


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

BillyC wrote:

I've been looking at Rebel Wire. They have several kits designed for 60s/70s muscles cars. Not custom but with a little work would adapt to my 66. Made in USA. Wires are marked every 6" etc. I don't know anything about the company but the price is between $250 and $350. That's what got my attention. Compared to Paimless and others at twice the price.

 
Comparing prices like that is what the cheap guys want you to do and what drives the more expensive guys crazy. Why? Because the kits from the two sources are not even closely comparable. The cheap guy is probably using minimum gauge copper wire with minimum strand count and plain vanilla PVC insulation. The expensive guy is probably using oxygen free copper with a higher strand count and XLPE insulation. Not even close to the same wire. Does the kit come preterminated or does it have loose ends? Does the kit provide Ford connectors, or generic connectors, or (horrors) GM connectors? Does the seller supply the connector tool or make it easy to rent?

Having the wires marked is nice, but is no metric for product "goodness". I have a wire roll labeling machine I use to label non-stock wiring; it cost $300. If you are going to sell automotive wiring kits you should certainly invest at least that much in tooling.

Every time wiring kits come up, everyone complains about how expensive Painless, Ron Francis, and American Autowire are, but the folks that buy those kits usually admit the design of the kits make them easy to install. We don't hear many testimonials about the less expensive kits.

It all comes down to what your criteria are. If you are willing to invest time and sweat equity, then the cheaper kits will probably be a good fit and you will learn more about your wiring system than with the more turnkey kits. If your criteria is absolute cheapest price then you don't need any input from the rest of us to do that.

One last thought. It is possible for a Little Guy wire supplier to use the same quality materials as the Big Guys. The Little Guy can sell for less because he has less overhead (sells out of his garage), does not have a lot of R&D expenses (because he buys one harness from the Big Guys and duplicates it), and has less staff (typically his wife and kids), so he can get backed up on production, sales, and shipping. The Big Guys typically ship next day, the Little Guy may take weeks.

The moral of this story is: be careful comparing wiring kits by price alone.

 

7/10/2017 5:22 PM  #16


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Hornman wrote:

BillyC wrote:

I've been looking at Rebel Wire. They have several kits designed for 60s/70s muscles cars. Not custom but with a little work would adapt to my 66. Made in USA. Wires are marked every 6" etc. I don't know anything about the company but the price is between $250 and $350. That's what got my attention. Compared to Paimless and others at twice the price.

 
Comparing prices like that is what the cheap guys want you to do and what drives the more expensive guys crazy. Why? Because the kits from the two sources are not even closely comparable. The cheap guy is probably using minimum gauge copper wire with minimum strand count and plain vanilla PVC insulation. The expensive guy is probably using oxygen free copper with a higher strand count and XLPE insulation. Not even close to the same wire. Does the kit come preterminated or does it have loose ends? Does the kit provide Ford connectors, or generic connectors, or (horrors) GM connectors? Does the seller supply the connector tool or make it easy to rent?

Having the wires marked is nice, but is no metric for product "goodness". I have a wire roll labeling machine I use to label non-stock wiring; it cost $300. If you are going to sell automotive wiring kits you should certainly invest at least that much in tooling.

Every time wiring kits come up, everyone complains about how expensive Painless, Ron Francis, and American Autowire are, but the folks that buy those kits usually admit the design of the kits make them easy to install. We don't hear many testimonials about the less expensive kits.

It all comes down to what your criteria are. If you are willing to invest time and sweat equity, then the cheaper kits will probably be a good fit and you will learn more about your wiring system than with the more turnkey kits. If your criteria is absolute cheapest price then you don't need any input from the rest of us to do that.

One last thought. It is possible for a Little Guy wire supplier to use the same quality materials as the Big Guys. The Little Guy can sell for less because he has less overhead (sells out of his garage), does not have a lot of R&D expenses (because he buys one harness from the Big Guys and duplicates it), and has less staff (typically his wife and kids), so he can get backed up on production, sales, and shipping. The Big Guys typically ship next day, the Little Guy may take weeks.

The moral of this story is: be careful comparing wiring kits by price alone.

 
Not comparing by price alone. My first consideration is American made. That's not always possible and when it is it cost more and I'm ok with that. However this particular company uses SXL wire with a flame proof cover. I know that it isn't a direct fit and will require a little bit more work but I enjoy working on the car so that's no big deal. In my case the bottom line is I can't afford Painless and this looks to be a viable option.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

7/10/2017 6:58 PM  #17


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

I made significant progress today. I have multiple problems.  I got the turn signal switch today.  What I did was trace the wires back and there is a wire that comes out of the fuse block and goes into the flasher.  No power.  So first, at the wiring harness, I ran a 12v jumper to each wire and its corresponding light.  I got three lights lit up.  The driver rear bulb was working, but it was flickering, it turned out that the glass had separated from the base.  Problem 1 fixed.   (yes, I did previously check the bulb, got light and moved on.  Today it flickered and revealed itself)   Anyways,  I know Im good from the switch plug on.   2) plugged in the new switch, no difference.  So, I ran a 12v jumper to the blue power input wire to the switch.  Bingo, got power to the signals, but no flash.  So there is no power from that blue wire.  Traced it back, it comes out of the flasher.   Bingo.  No power going into the flasher.  
The schematic shows a wire coming out of the fuse block and it goes into the flasher.   No power from that wire.   Either got a short in it, or the fuse blew again.  But I quit for the day because my neck got sore.   

Just need to remove old switch, replace with good one, then figure out why no power is coming out of the fuse block.  
Two ways to fix it from this point.  Get to the source of the problem or run a fused wire from a 12v power source to the flasher input.    

Ps, this switch is so similar to a generator powered early Mustang switch.  Maybe the only difference is the length of the wires?   I wish I had one available to compare them.    No one reproduces this Galaxie turn signal switch.  

Last edited by Greg B (7/10/2017 7:00 PM)


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

7/10/2017 7:45 PM  #18


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

I'm so "tight" I squeak-when-I-walk..(I know-I know) butt am a big believer in fixing-what-you-got when possible. 
I soldered and shrink-wrapped all my joints when doing my wiring/re-wiring.
A lot of the wiring I ran new runs and numbered the run on both ends and in the middle.
(Book of sticky numbers are available at auto parts stores). I then noted the numbered runs in my Mustang Repair book wiring schematic....Hope I don't lose that book!
I added relays where needed and also an aux. fuse panel. (Electr. buddy of mine got one from West Marine  Sweeet little piece.) I left the wires to it about two feet long so I can grab it anf pull it from under the dash when I need to. It just sits on top of the heater box.
I gotta admit I had help initially from a couple of "anal" electrician buddys to get me going in the right direction.
So far...I've been pretty successful in chasing/solving electric probs.
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

7/11/2017 7:07 AM  #19


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Hornman wrote:

 
Every time wiring kits come up, everyone complains about how expensive Painless, Ron Francis, and American Autowire are, but the folks that buy those kits usually admit the design of the kits make them easy to install. We don't hear many testimonials about the less expensive kits.

I just completed a bumber to bumber rewire of a 1966 mustang using 2 painless kits.  Dropped ~$1600 total with the rebate.  I would say their information got me about 3/4 of the way.  The rest of the way was youtube, discussion threads, and asking around.  The wire quality was nice, the packaging was nice, the wire marking was nice.  What I really didn't like was just how poor their instructions where.  Good enough to get by don't get me wrong but for the money they should be really expansive and cover things like accessories and different trim options.  If you're car was 100% original then it was very cookie cutter but how many cars 60 years later fall into that category?  The didn't even include a full wiring diagram.  It was several schematics of different sections.  One of the wires that they claimed was a fused wire wasn't.  Imagine what could have happened.  I would have rather had their tech support than not, but only one of their guys wasn't rude.  They seemed annoyed that I was even calling them.  I guess my point is if you're going to drop $100 for a steak you expect to get the best damn steak you've ever had.

Last edited by TremendousWand (7/11/2017 7:08 AM)

 

7/11/2017 8:48 AM  #20


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

TremendousWand wrote:

Hornman wrote:

 
Every time wiring kits come up, everyone complains about how expensive Painless, Ron Francis, and American Autowire are, but the folks that buy those kits usually admit the design of the kits make them easy to install. We don't hear many testimonials about the less expensive kits.

I just completed a bumber to bumber rewire of a 1966 mustang using 2 painless kits.  Dropped ~$1600 total with the rebate.  I would say their information got me about 3/4 of the way.  The rest of the way was youtube, discussion threads, and asking around.  The wire quality was nice, the packaging was nice, the wire marking was nice.  What I really didn't like was just how poor their instructions where.  Good enough to get by don't get me wrong but for the money they should be really expansive and cover things like accessories and different trim options.  If you're car was 100% original then it was very cookie cutter but how many cars 60 years later fall into that category?  The didn't even include a full wiring diagram.  It was several schematics of different sections.  One of the wires that they claimed was a fused wire wasn't.  Imagine what could have happened.  I would have rather had their tech support than not, but only one of their guys wasn't rude.  They seemed annoyed that I was even calling them.  I guess my point is if you're going to drop $100 for a steak you expect to get the best damn steak you've ever had.

 
Painless seems to get more complaints than the other Big Guys. I agree that the tech support guys should never be rude, but consider their position when you ask them about a non-stock application for their product. The tech guy has no idea what you have or what your level of expertise is. Anything he tells you is going to be a guess, so it is not surprising they would get frustrated.

Earlier in the thread Greg stated he had acquired a color coded wiring schematic for his car. Anyone that is going to do a total rewire or major wiring project on his car should get one. I have them for my Mustangs and when I acquired my Torino I bought a colorized poster size wiring diagram for it. Then I sat down and traced down each circuit. I found a mistake in the factory schematic! It showed a connection where it should have had a "jump over". This is an example of having to keep your brain engaged whenever you are doing that kind of detail work, you cannot totally trust anyone or anything.

 

7/18/2017 3:46 PM  #21


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Frustrated!   I finally got a chance to work on the turn signal switch again.   Carefully removed the old one, fished the new wires through, got it all plugged in, and all worked except the drivers rear.   I know its not the dash wiring, because I can switch the front and rear wire and make it work.  So...knowing that it worked while it was out..nothing left but a short in the wire.   

Just gave up and ordered a new reproduction SW-40 switch.   I hope I get a decent one...

The other problem that I had found is, somehow, someway, the wire between the fuse box and the flasher, seems to have a short to ground.  It is blowing fuses.   This has turned out to be a PITA.    I havent decided if I am going to run a new wire from the fusebox to the flasher, or if I am just going to run a fused wire from the accessory center lug.   It does seem to split off and power the backup lights as well as the turn signal.   

At least I am trying folks.   Very hard to accept and work on things at times given physical limitatons.   I havent given up yet!  


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

7/18/2017 9:45 PM  #22


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Double check those grounds Greg!!!!
Hang in there......
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

7/19/2017 6:56 AM  #23


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

6sally6 wrote:

Double check those grounds Greg!!!!

I concur.  Sounds like a bad ground.  

 

7/19/2017 7:08 AM  #24


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

Greg, When I pulled the factory harnesses out of the 66 Stang, only 1 wire had a prior repair to it.  It was the wire between the fusebox and the flasher.  There was some collateral damage to the insulation of other wires.  I repaired them all, and all is well, but check that wire between the fuse box and flasher.

 

7/19/2017 7:44 AM  #25


Re: Thinking of buying a whole car wiring kit

The harness is very similar to what is in an early Mustang.   I can get all four lights to light up by putting power to them directly.  I had the turn signal switch working on all four when I had it plugged in on the floormat.   It is only after I installed it, that it won't work on the drivers rear.   I can switch out the wire that goes to the front signal.  in this case, green/w stripe with the green (rear)  and make the rear signal work.   Conclusion, the turn signal switch is just as bad as the one I replaced it with.  

They don't make this actual turn signal switch anymore, or I should say no one reproduces it, but you can make one that fits a 64 galaxie work.   It is a little bit different, but basically functions the same.   

Anyone ever seen a FLASHER canister ever short to ground?  I've seen them go bad, but this is the first one I've ever seen short itself out.  Maybe its the way the electric is designed on these cars.  

It was inevitable, after double checking all the wires on the ebay turn signal, I wasn't getting continuity to the horn either.  So even if the turn signal had worked, I wouldnt have had a horn.  I basically just let myself get snookered and bought a bad used switch.   Oh well, it happens.   That is the nature of dealing with 50+ year old parts.  

On the bright side, I did make a neat tool to fish the wires through.  A thin piece of stiff wire bent to a hook on one end, then slip a piece of heat shrink tube on it.  That keeps the wire from trying to bend in half at the plug.  

The 1963 switch is kind of a weird hybrid switch.   Here is 1962, 1963, and 1964 switches.  

1962 switch. Notice the horn button contact housing is at the top.


1963 switch I took out.  Notice the cam is broken as well, as someones previous attempt to repair it. 


Here is the reproduction 1964 switch.  These you can replace the cam on if they break. well, original switches, that is.   Some of the wires are a different color, but just have to make the translation.  

Last edited by Greg B (7/19/2017 8:27 AM)


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.