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8/17/2017 10:13 AM  #1


Beating overheating issues once and for all..

so have had this 65 stang with a '69 302 in it mostly stock .. MSD ignition and hipo manifolds.. for 4 years now.. and as soon as I could get it, I put an AC in it. Ever since, the car would run fine on the highway and even going 20mph consistently.. but man... I make the mistake of stopping at a red light.. it would start heating up FAST.. like get upto 220 or higher.. OR i would have to go into neutral and hold 1500RPM  to keep it from going over 200 or 205.. Forget AC on a stop light. I better roll the window down and take in the exhaust of the rest of the traffic,

Added a 6 blade flex fan

changed the leaky water pump a while back .. to a orielly auto generic re-man water pump

Upgraded to a 3 row equivalent aluminum radiator (with 2 1inch cores). This radiator has been amazing! it would keep engine at 180-185 on the highway with AC on, but back on a stop light it was like the engine started to heat soak and no cooling.

I was told by many : air flow issue. So I added a 3 inch shroud , made sure the fan could only suck air from inside the radiator.

Also.. changed the spacer to one that would make a reasonable space between the fan and the radiator, and the fan wont be buried inside the shroud.

Still.. just fighting the same issue.

Charles from Houston , asked me if I had the right pulley on the water pump. Sent me into a spiral or research and measurements, and found out I was running a 6.75" water pump pulley.. with a stock 3 groove crank pulley ( meant for AC, which means  either a 1:1 drive to the water pump or an under-driven water pump) .. YIKES! here is a problem. An AC car had a 3 groove crank pulley , and a 2 groove water pump pulley 5 13/16" size. the belt routing changed because of it. and ofcourse the pulleys were matched to run the pump and fan at a higher RPM on idle and across the whole rpm range.

Also talking to Steve, and reading , found Flow Kooler water pumps.. which push lot more water into the block helping in preventing cavitation, and basically under 3000 rpm (where i drive) , the flow is higher, creating more pressure in the block to help collect heat faster... blah ti blah.. tech speak.. a lot of words to say its good..

so yes. now I am going to clean and flush my cooling system
change water pump to  a high flow
change pulley to the correct matched size
re route belts to have  (alt wp crank , crank wp ps, and crank idler ac config) like ford designed it.

and I have to tell you , this car better run damn cool after this! :D ..

thoughts.. ?
 


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
 

8/17/2017 10:20 AM  #2


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

check carb "Choke"   if the butterfly is part open ( just a little) car will over heat.  Just another fyi  QUick test is to "hard wire" it open  

Last edited by Don (8/17/2017 10:22 AM)

 

8/17/2017 10:44 AM  #3


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Bad to hear that you are having troubles...great to hear from you, Gaba.  Hope you and the family can make the bash.  Nobody EVER misses two in a row.  LOL.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

8/17/2017 12:29 PM  #4


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

I wasn't planning to miss it.. But ... we are expecting our second kid in october ... right on the date or around the date of the bash!! hahahahaha .. yes we couldnt plan it right! ... so next bash is a for sure!!! haha not this one though


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/17/2017 5:42 PM  #5


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

I had exactly the same issues with the same fixes including the hi flow water pump in until I put in an electric fan. Now if I stay below 80 mph it runs in the normal range. I ran it at 90 mph for about 30 miles and it started to get hot. When I slowed down it cooled down. The engine turns 3000 rpm at 80 mph. The difference is my engine is a 351W bored .030 over and stroked to 416 cui. I like the electric fan but MS says I need a new mechanic. I don't know what else to do to it except slow down the rpm.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

8/17/2017 6:00 PM  #6


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

I have the same issue too.   I also had the flow kooler water pump.  Ill give you deal on it if your interested.  I have the ford Taurus Fan along with the 3G alternator and it keeps it cool.   I switched to a 5.0 serpentine belt system along with a fox body Aluminum Radiator and reverse rotation water pump this last winter.  Its actually seems to run cooler with this system than the V belt system.  Good Luck  and PM if you want the flow kooler waterpump. Steve69

 

8/17/2017 7:06 PM  #7


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Have you had the heads off the car recently, if you have it is possible to put the head gaskets on the wrong way causing overheating. You haven't mentioned it so I will assume no, just throwing that out there.

 

8/17/2017 9:45 PM  #8


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

MachTJ wrote:

Have you had the heads off the car recently, if you have it is possible to put the head gaskets on the wrong way causing overheating. You haven't mentioned it so I will assume no, just throwing that out there.

 
Heads can't be the issue as the car runs very cool and well in high rpm and loses situations . It's just the idle time that's the issue. But yes head she have come off once but they were put back on correctly .

Steve I just ordered the pump, it is bavkordrerd .. I send you a PM


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/18/2017 7:58 AM  #9


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Could try replacing the thermostat. Might be that its not opening all the way. Didn't see it mentioned that you replaced it along with everything else. Also check to make sure that your radiator cap is seating in the radiator good and that the spring pressure is still good. A 11 to 16 pound cap should be sufficient with all the mods that you have done. Finally the coolant should be a 50/50 mixture. Pardon if all this seems obvious, but the last two affect the boiling point of coolant.

 

8/18/2017 8:25 AM  #10


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

no mAchTJ this is all great info sir. Yes the cap is a 13LB cap. The coolant will be flushed and replaced.. and yes thanks for mentioning the Tstat.. Yes, I will be changing it out.. its like I am in there doing all this, might as put in a new one. I use the failsafe Tstats 180deg.


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/18/2017 9:44 AM  #11


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

If you are concerned with maximum cooling, then use pure distilled water with a bottle of Water Wetter or Purple Ice. Water transfers heat better than ethylene glycol. MachTJ stated that you should use 50/50 which protects the engine from freezing down to -40 degrees, but he lives in Wisconsin where it can actually get that cold. In North Texas 25-30% glycol is sufficient for the winter and it transmits heat better than 50/50.

 

8/18/2017 9:53 AM  #12


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Hornman. That is actually good thinking. True. It never gets that cold here . And my garage is warmer than outside even if it is a whole 32 degrees outside ... lowest I've seen here since I've been in Texas is like 20F

Ok so 25-30% mix it is... I have heard about water wetter and purple ice . Come to think of it , I may have a bottle of purple ice in the garage . I'll definitely add that

Also I made a mistake running non distilled water while doing my concentrate to 50-50 mix. Aluminum radiators don't like that. I really need to get that water out of the radiator now.. so flush needs to happen

I will be taking off the radiator off the car as it will give me more space to work on the water pump...

What is the best way to flush a cooling system including heater core? Do it with radiator in the car..? Or take radiator off , and then clean it how?

What do you guys do?


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/18/2017 12:06 PM  #13


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Did you bleed the cooling system?  People make 100 changes chasing a heating issue and never bleed the system.

Last edited by TremendousWand (8/18/2017 12:06 PM)

 

8/18/2017 1:36 PM  #14


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Gaba, look at the "Citric Acid Coolant Flush" procedure in the Tips & How-to section.

 

8/18/2017 9:31 PM  #15


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

I use distilled water and just a "dab" of antifreeze mainly for the lubrication it gives the WP. (1 dab=20/25%!)Doesn't get REAL cold here either! 
I fill radiator about 3/4 full and let idle with the cap OFF until I see the thermostat open (water in radiator starts rolling/swirling/puking) then top off with antifreeze.
I have flushed my engine/radiator/heater with Dawn detergent...drain/rinse/drain/rinse.
Can't imagine yours is yukked up enough for a  major flush!?!!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/18/2017 9:54 PM  #16


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

I don't think it is ... but I want to atleast run enough water through the system and drain it count as a good flush.


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/20/2017 1:06 AM  #17


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Just a word of warning - I have had two Flowkooler pumps and both were bad within 5 miles of driving the car. Actually, on the first one the bearing went out after 5 miles. On the second one, the bearing was toast straight out of the box. They are having some serious quality control issues right now and I wouldn't use their pumps if I could absolutely help it.

Instead, you might try putting on a stock pump with the correct impeller. A lot of aftermarket pumps have just the star-shaped impeller, which apparently cavitates water a lot more than a closed-vane impeller. I've had good luck with a plain old stock HiPo pump.

Do you have a good temp gauge on your car (i.e. better than the stock idiot gauge)? If so, when you're driving, pay close attention to the temps. If it fluctuates around a lot even when driving normally (even if it's fluctuating within acceptable spec), you're looking at air in the system or a thermostat malfunctioning. I had a thermostat that got stuck partially open so it would overcool in cool weather and on the highway, but overheat in high load or idle conditions when hot out. Really annoying.
 


"Calamity Jane" - Insane road warrior powered by hopes and dreams and piloted by an idiot.
 

8/20/2017 1:50 AM  #18


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

I have heard one off reports on the quality issue . Sad to hear you had two bad ones straight . That is annoying.

I do have a good gauge . Temp is not erratic but consistent . I can reproduce the issues very precisely . It's not enough flow of air and water simply on idle. A higher idle ( 1500-1700 rpm) fixes the issue to where it will stay at 205 or so on a Red light with AC off.


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/20/2017 11:35 AM  #19


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Well, that's good news then - you can rule out the thermostat or air in the system as the issue. 

If you do get the Flowkooler pump, inspect it VERY carefully before you bother to put it on. You shouldn't have any play in the bearing at all and it should feel perfectly smooth. Anything less than that and you should send it back because you'll lose it real quick.

I've also heard good things about the Edelbrock pumps which are comparable in price (IIRC) though they don't look perfectly stock.

I'm currently on the road with my '66 and the HiPo pump has been perfect in every situation. FWIW, the only thing that is different from a stock pump on a Flowkooler pump is the impeller - instead of an open vaned style, they use a closed vane style (like the HiPos) with 16 vanes. That's kind of what led me to the HiPo pump in the first place.


"Calamity Jane" - Insane road warrior powered by hopes and dreams and piloted by an idiot.
 

8/20/2017 4:06 PM  #20


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

The only issue with hipo stock is the absence of two bolt holes close to the bearing (ofcourse in the outside ) that I think my AC compressor mount bracket utilizes .

Where do you get hipo pumps(just in case) ?

Last edited by Gaba (8/20/2017 4:07 PM)


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/20/2017 4:35 PM  #21


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

Ya know that if its a lack of air flow at idle and not water flow .... it's a perfect scenario for a good electric fan.
Just saying.


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

8/20/2017 5:43 PM  #22


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

While I hear you... I will be lying if I say I haven't considered it .
But 50 years ago , these cars ran on the hot California and Arizona desserts with stock radiators and fans and AC systems. I have a hard time believing that I cannot get it to be reliable with stock setup. Hahah

All that said , pump and pulley upgrade(really matching ) are still needed to bring the car "up to spec"
Tstat change : because I'll be flushing it

So no money being spent here is putting money on a bad part

And if this doesn't work I'll save for the electric fan for sure . As that's the next logical step.

But less electronics I have , less junk I have to deal with .. so it is a consideration I have to have . ;)


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

8/20/2017 6:29 PM  #23


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

could be timing at idle, Not enough BTDC timing can make the motor heat up at Idle.  Do you have vacuum can on that MSD dist?

Last edited by mxjeffb (8/20/2017 6:38 PM)

 

8/20/2017 7:30 PM  #24


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

"But 50 years ago , these cars ran on the hot California and Arizona desserts with stock radiators and fans and AC systems. I have a hard time believing that I cannot get it to be reliable with stock setup. Hahah"

Having lived in that area, Mustangs were known for over heating. When I converted my 1970, 250 six to a 302 in 1979 I installed a big block radiator for that very reason. Ten years ago I changed the 302 for a 351W bored and stroked to 416 and installed a 4 core aluminum radiator thinking it would help. I'm not sure about that or don't have enough knowledge on this subject. I also installed a hi flow water pump but don't remember anything about it except it is aluminum also. The electric fans made a big difference but I don't know if it is fixed yet. Your questions are very good, I'm learning a lot. I did notice on my current engine that one of the head gaskets looks like it is leaking in the rear of the engine. I have to study that now before the bash.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

8/20/2017 9:34 PM  #25


Re: Beating overheating issues once and for all..

mxjeffb wrote:

could be timing at idle, Not enough BTDC timing can make the motor heat up at Idle.  Do you have vacuum can on that MSD dist?

timing was set by MS himself.. after a lot of playing around.. its running cooler than it used to now.. more than ever!! lol

vacuum advance and msd 6al box

well yall may be right.. that these cars did overheat.. but i still see so many people without these issues on similar setups.. nyway.. its a good shot at fixing this before going electric if i need to


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

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