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I decided to put A/C in my 65, Since I was going to have half of the front off the engine I decided to pull the engine apart down to the timing chain and go back to a mechanical fuel pump. This engine is an 87 302 HO which I bought as a long block and used the accs off my 289. Since I have the water pump off I was thinking of replacing it. This one is 8 years old and probably has 10000 miles on it maybe a bit more. Do you guys agree with this??? also the mechanical fuel pump I have is the same age but it has not been on the car since I changed engines around 4 years ago and has been lying on the shelf. Also should I replace the front seal n the timing cover. It was also new when I changed engines. Anything else I should replace????
I still have to come up with an eccentric that will fit this engine.
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Terry,
Match the water pump style to the one you removed. I believe the early engines had the exposed impeller because the early timing chain cover design served as the backing plate for the H20 pump.
Seal: replace it if you think it's necessary
Fuel pump: you already have one, I'd use it. If it goes tango uniform, it's easy enough to replace then.
Eccentric: visit LateModelRestoraton.com..........they have what you need. If you have any questions, shoot them an email or pick up the phone. They're great to work with.....
Now, get wrenching....
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Yep, the aluminum one without the backing plate is 63 to 65. The cast iron one with the backing plate is 1966+. Pumps match the timing covers. They are not interchangable. Yes. change the seal. WYAIT. or something like that.
Unfortunately, I do not have a cam eccentric laying around. I looked for you.
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I've always gotten over 100,000 miles out of my water pumps. Fuel pumps, close to 300,000 miles!
10,000 miles - keep both unless you have some of that Chinese crap.
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Be a GREAT time to swap out the camshaft!!! J/K
Water pumps are cheap and EZ to install. Get a new one. (Make sure the snout is the same length as the one you pull off All pumps are not alike)
I like to use RTV and NO GASKET on the front cover. NO LEAKS. I also replaced the odd lengths of bolts(on front of engine) with studs made from all-thread. Anti-seize is your friend.
Use the fuel pump on the shelf.
Be a good time to paint the engine while the fronts off.
RUMPITY-RUMPITY-RUMP!!!!! = lotsa fun and thumbs up.
6sal6
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My worry with a used fuel pump is the diaphragm being deteriorated from previous use and air getting to it sitting on the shelf. It could leak out on the ground or into the motor.
But the way parts get mdae these days, a new pump could do the same thing, I guess.
Change the timing cover seal cause your already that far into it.
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My 66-289 has about 100k on it with the original water pump working fine. Having said that it will probably self distructed tomorrow.lol since your taking everything apart and considering a pump isn't all that expensive I think I would change it.
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Terry, I'm with Mike. Great time to add a cam.
For you and your 2+2 a Comp Cam XE266HR PN 35-514-8. This Xtreme Energy cam measures 216/224 degrees of duration at 0.050 inch of valve lift, 0.544/ 0.555 inch of valve lift, and uses a 112-lobe separation angle. Perfect for a stockish 5.0 H O, strong low end torque.
O course Mikey would want more Rumpty Rump
Corky
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That is the cam that I have in our 66. It adds 100 thousandths lift so you need to be sure the valve springs will handle that. I will say that with the AFR heads, and even with the AOD, it will put you right back in the chair at sea level. Up here it feels a little dead but I was very surprised at how it pulled when it was getting some air. It does make nice torque and has a slightly lumpy idle...not up to Mike's standards but okay.
BB
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For those who have put A/C in their cars, The instructions say to remove the drivers side fresh air vent and cap it off. WHY??
I'm thinking I'm going to leave it just so I can get some fresh air!!
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terry wrote:
.......remove the drivers side fresh air vent and cap it off. WHY??
I'm thinking I'm going to leave it just so I can get some fresh air!!
Yeah Buddy. I with you on that.
Now, bout that cam......
Tubo
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terry wrote:
For those who have put A/C in their cars, The instructions say to remove the drivers side fresh air vent and cap it off. WHY??
I'm thinking I'm going to leave it just so I can get some fresh air!!
I left my driver side fresh air vent inner place.
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terry wrote:
For those who have put A/C in their cars, The instructions say to remove the drivers side fresh air vent and cap it off. WHY??
I'm thinking I'm going to leave it just so I can get some fresh air!!
I agree, Terry. I did remove the left side fresh air vent and re-installing it is part of my planned winter work.
BB
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Tubo wrote:
terry wrote:
.......remove the drivers side fresh air vent and cap it off. WHY??
I'm thinking I'm going to leave it just so I can get some fresh air!!Yeah Buddy. I with you on that.
Now, bout that cam......
Tubo
You cammers! let me say this in a manner you will all understand, NO!!
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Why say no when it feels so good to say YES?
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Best I recall, the cast iron style water pumps could be found with both open impellers and closed impellers. The thought back in the day was that the closed impellers were more efficient, but I never found much difference. As for your fuel pump eccentric, you may have to have to have a machine shop thin the eccentric down a bit to clear the cover. Cannot remember how much for sure but about 1/10 inch or so. Maybe that needs to be done if you are running a double roller timing chain and a single roller chain may not need a thinner eccentric. Time robs me of specific details. Sorry
Best
Al
P.S. Great time for a cam change. Cannot get on board with recommended mega-rumpy cams previously discussed, but there are several good choices to give more energy without sacrificing economy.
Last edited by Al Newman (11/05/2017 4:54 PM)
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Be careful matchng your eccentric with the timing chain set. The two piece eccentric takes a timng set with a raised boss under the eccentric that allows the outer part of the eccentric to spin freely. It will use a short cam dowel.
A one piece excentric uses the long cam dowel and a flat front sprocket. Be sure everything lines up correctly.
Verify the eccentric will not rub the back of the timing cover.
Verify the tming sprocket has proper endplay when tightened to the cam.
Verify the chain clears the block (some don’t).
I would replace the seal in the tmng cover. If not already converted, modify the timing cover to use an externally removable seal from 82 or later 5.0.
An old trick is to immediately store the removed water pump in a bucket of antifreeze/water while removed. This keeps air from drying out the seal in the pump. Don’t know if that actually helps. I would opt for a new flowkooler pump. When I put one on my 427, removing an Edelbrock pump, the engine ran 5 degrees cooler with no other changes. About $90 for one.
New fuel pump is about $20 at OReilly. Your call on that. Good choice on your part to go back to the reliable manual fuel pump.
It would be nice to see you actually drive your car on a road trip, but I realize there is little chance of your spirit of adventure rising to that occasion. Please prove me wrong on that subject!
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Verify the tming sprocket has proper endplay when tightened to the cam.
Verify the chain clears the block (some don’t).
I guess I don't understand these two. I am NOT changing my cam or timing set all I intend on doing is removing the timing cover and add the eccentric then putting the timing cover back on and reassembling the engine. I am going to order a procomp eccentric kit
I think i modified the timing cover when I installed it for the modern seal
As far as my spirit of adventure, It has nothing to do with that. it has everything to do with my butt sitting in that seat for long periods. 37 years of working construction has taken its toll on this body and it makes sitting in these seats very painful after just a couple hours. Modern seats I can go a bit longer. If I ride in my 65 for longer than a couple hours my legs and feet go numb making it very uncomfortable and dangerous. Kinda hard to hit the brakes when you cant feel your feet.
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Yes, Yes, Yes Terry drive it with a backup driver and swap out to give your back a rest. Selfish of me;but, I would love to see your car again. Rode to the store with you at the Bash you hosted in Illinois. Something strange was happening in the front suspension. I think I saw a post that you had fixed that. Glad you are doing A/C. I have enjoyed mine the last 3 years. It's also nice to have a fully functioning heater and defroster. Vintage Air works exceptionally well. Don't know about other brands.
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I just installed Vintage A/C Gen IV “SureFit” in my 65 Mustang …
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My reason for bringing up the timing chain is that, depending on what eccentric you use, you may HAVE to change the timing set to make it work.
I did not realize you had problems with the seat. My solution to that same problem was a more modern type seat. Now it rides just like a modern car, as far the seat goes, at least! Now only my hands go to sleep when I drive long distances, but that happens no matter which car I am driving.
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I thought you had the Fox seats like our's in your car, Terry. Guess not. Anyway, we have 87ish Fox seats with TMI upholstery and I our car is very comfy. I know this to be true because it doesn't bother me any more than either of our modern cars. Also, I have a very sophisticated and sensitive vehicle comfort monitor normally attached to the passenger seat and I have had no alarms indicated...even after a number of 500+ mile days. The only thing that bothers me is that these cars need another inch or two of steering column length for me. When the seat is back far enough for my legs, the steering wheel is a bit too far forward. Cruise control helps and the power lumbar support is a huge help but I still stop and walk around a bit every two hours or so, butt, I do that with the other vehicles also.
Sorry you can't enjoy your car on a road trip. We did over 3300 miles on the bash trip (over 6K for the summer) and the short visit notwithstanding, the road trip was great...just too damned long for such short fun. But that would have been true in any car.
BB
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