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7/17/2018 12:34 PM  #1


suggestions on 66 radiator

Hi , 
I am looking for some tips before i buy the new alu radiator to fight hot engine . With ac on  is difficult to keep water  temp at resonable level .  also oil temp is going up too much
Some already suggest me to use 1967 /1970 bigger ones .
The 25.2 inch wide for 67 /70 mustang make me some issue with battery on one side , and  A.C. pipes on the other side. This pipes cannot be moved 
I have found another one always 3 raw for ford galaxie that is 22.1 wide ( pass side in outlet )
is a bit little but i think will work
The first  one - also - if i cut the sheet metal around , the " hole " will be only 22 wide and some inches of radiator will be covered.  The plus is that contain more water 
The second  is only 3 inch less and  i will have no issue with battery and pipes. The " hole " will be exactly the radiator size but is little than the other .

I am more oriented for the second one but i would like to hear some from your ezperience
Welcome !

 

 

7/17/2018 2:12 PM  #2


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

Use the 20” 1969 radiator if lower hose is on passenger side. Use the 1970 20” radiator if lower hose on driver side.

These will bolt in with no cutting required. You will have to drill four new mounting holes and revise the condenser mounts slightly.

Use the 69 or 70 shroud and a 17” fan.

If the aluminum radiator in the 20” size with a good fan and shroud does not cure your overheating problem, your engine has other issues that will need to be addressed.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

7/17/2018 2:42 PM  #3


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

If you are buying a new radiator anyway I would not bother with copper/brass.  Aluminum is much better at rejecting heat than copper/brass, so they are more efficient.  There's a reason all new cars have aluminum radiators.  Sure, part of it is cost, and a copper/brass radiator is more durable than an aluminum/plastic tank OEM radiator (aftermarket all aluminum radiators are just as durable as copper/brass though).  The other part of it is weight, where aluminum is significantly lighter than copper/brass, and as cars got heavier because of all the electronic stuff in them the OEMs look everywhere they can to help cut weight.  BUT, a big part of it is that as engines started making more and more power they created more and more heat, and copper/brass just couldn't handle it anymore.  Consider than in '89 a Mustang 5.0 made 225HP, but by '02 my WRX made 227 HP with a 2.0 4 cylinder.  Most non turbo V6s now are pushing 300+HP.  Heat's got to be eliminated somehow.

I know MS and I feel differently on this, so I'll give you my side; go with an electric cooling fan.  I use a SPAL 30102082 in my '67 with a controller I built for about $30 worth of parts.  I have two relays (regular use and AC), a thermostatic switch, and an override switch.  I've driven the car on days when it was 95 degrees and 90+% humidity (heat index well above 100) and the engine never got over 210 degrees, and mostly ran at about 205.  I run a 180 degree thermostat and set the thermostatic switch at 195 degrees (fan on temperature).

I get the ruggedness and simplicity of a mechanical fan setup, but I return to the fact that no new cars, and few new trucks at this point, use a mechanical fan.  Almost everything is electronic.  That said, I run my SPAL because they are OEM quality.  I would not waste my money on a cheap fan, because they will fail.  Fans are an area where you definitely get what you pay for. 

So there you go, two points of view, no need to debate this issue again.  Part of it I know may also come down to what you can reasonably get in Italy. 

 

7/17/2018 3:11 PM  #4


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

TKOPerformance wrote:

If you are buying a new radiator anyway I would not bother with copper/brass.  Aluminum is much better at rejecting heat than copper/brass, so they are more efficient.  There's a reason all new cars have aluminum radiators.  Sure, part of it is cost, and a copper/brass radiator is more durable than an aluminum/plastic tank OEM radiator (aftermarket all aluminum radiators are just as durable as copper/brass though).  The other part of it is weight, where aluminum is significantly lighter than copper/brass, and as cars got heavier because of all the electronic stuff in them the OEMs look everywhere they can to help cut weight.  BUT, a big part of it is that as engines started making more and more power they created more and more heat, and copper/brass just couldn't handle it anymore.  Consider than in '89 a Mustang 5.0 made 225HP, but by '02 my WRX made 227 HP with a 2.0 4 cylinder.  Most non turbo V6s now are pushing 300+HP.  Heat's got to be eliminated somehow.

I know MS and I feel differently on this, so I'll give you my side; go with an electric cooling fan.  I use a SPAL 30102082 in my '67 with a controller I built for about $30 worth of parts.  I have two relays (regular use and AC), a thermostatic switch, and an override switch.  I've driven the car on days when it was 95 degrees and 90+% humidity (heat index well above 100) and the engine never got over 210 degrees, and mostly ran at about 205.  I run a 180 degree thermostat and set the thermostatic switch at 195 degrees (fan on temperature).

I get the ruggedness and simplicity of a mechanical fan setup, but I return to the fact that no new cars, and few new trucks at this point, use a mechanical fan.  Almost everything is electronic.  That said, I run my SPAL because they are OEM quality.  I would not waste my money on a cheap fan, because they will fail.  Fans are an area where you definitely get what you pay for. 

So there you go, two points of view, no need to debate this issue again.  Part of it I know may also come down to what you can reasonably get in Italy. 

thanks , i have done all the right steps with spal fan . I have also used a new temp digital sender to know that the fan is not lowering nothing . More flow trough radiator in front of engine will not reduce temp
  Recently i open a new hole on the front valance ( rear licence plate ) and was the best solution to have more air flow .
Now i have the same result as you .  My willing is to lower the average 200 .

the ac radiator i think is responsable for the missing flow , without it i never had one problem.

I dont want to debate again, i am only looking for some solution.

     Thread Starter
 

7/17/2018 6:21 PM  #5


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

How much space is between the condenser and the radiator?

 

7/17/2018 6:23 PM  #6


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

How much space is between the radiator and condenser?

What condenser are you using?  Stock replacement?  6 pass meant for R134a?

How is the AC performing?  Is it cooling properly?

 

7/17/2018 8:51 PM  #7


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

Alessandro wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

If you are buying a new radiator anyway I would not bother with copper/brass.  Aluminum is much better at rejecting heat than copper/brass, so they are more efficient.  There's a reason all new cars have aluminum radiators.  Sure, part of it is cost, and a copper/brass radiator is more durable than an aluminum/plastic tank OEM radiator (aftermarket all aluminum radiators are just as durable as copper/brass though).  The other part of it is weight, where aluminum is significantly lighter than copper/brass, and as cars got heavier because of all the electronic stuff in them the OEMs look everywhere they can to help cut weight.  BUT, a big part of it is that as engines started making more and more power they created more and more heat, and copper/brass just couldn't handle it anymore.  Consider than in '89 a Mustang 5.0 made 225HP, but by '02 my WRX made 227 HP with a 2.0 4 cylinder.  Most non turbo V6s now are pushing 300+HP.  Heat's got to be eliminated somehow.

I know MS and I feel differently on this, so I'll give you my side; go with an electric cooling fan.  I use a SPAL 30102082 in my '67 with a controller I built for about $30 worth of parts.  I have two relays (regular use and AC), a thermostatic switch, and an override switch.  I've driven the car on days when it was 95 degrees and 90+% humidity (heat index well above 100) and the engine never got over 210 degrees, and mostly ran at about 205.  I run a 180 degree thermostat and set the thermostatic switch at 195 degrees (fan on temperature).

I get the ruggedness and simplicity of a mechanical fan setup, but I return to the fact that no new cars, and few new trucks at this point, use a mechanical fan.  Almost everything is electronic.  That said, I run my SPAL because they are OEM quality.  I would not waste my money on a cheap fan, because they will fail.  Fans are an area where you definitely get what you pay for. 

So there you go, two points of view, no need to debate this issue again.  Part of it I know may also come down to what you can reasonably get in Italy. 

thanks , i have done all the right steps with spal fan . I have also used a new temp digital sender to know that the fan is not lowering nothing . More flow trough radiator in front of engine will not reduce temp
  Recently i open a new hole on the front valance ( rear licence plate ) and was the best solution to have more air flow .
Now i have the same result as you .  My willing is to lower the average 200 .

the ac radiator i think is responsable for the missing flow , without it i never had one problem.

I dont want to debate again, i am only looking for some solution.

The others all have good responses that I will not argue with.  It works for them.  In addition...I am an advocate of a Shelby front valence..  It uncovers about an additional third of the radiator to direct air flow and has walls that channel the air flow directly to the radiator.  So, whatever you do the valence will give you added cooling capacity.

The only problem may be with mounting the valence.  They are fiberglass and some of them have issues with bad-fitting mounting brackets.  They come with space for a bumper, or not, - your choice.  I got mine from Maier Racing back in the day.  They have since changed ownership, so I do not know quality and service.

Last edited by lowercasesteve (7/17/2018 8:52 PM)


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

7/18/2018 4:54 AM  #8


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

TKOPerformance wrote:

How much space is between the radiator and condenser?

What condenser are you using?  Stock replacement?  6 pass meant for R134a?

How is the AC performing?  Is it cooling properly?

Before i add the spal fan i had  1 or 2 inches between rad. and cond. ( as i remember)
After add the fan i got 3 inches between . i add a little spacer in water radiator ( 1/2 inch) and now is more close to belt fan .
The condenser is what came in vintage air ac kit .  i dont know if is stock replace ...The dimensions are more or less like the front support hole for radiator flow .  about cooling fluid is r134a for sure .( but i havent understand the question " 6 pass meant for r 134a ?  )
The system is performing good until the engine temp stay low.  when the engine bay temp  rise too much  the ac begin to work worst and the cool air is less.

just a jump back on my first question : is better a 24 inch wide ( partially covered by sheet metal)  or 
a 22 inch wide ( totally exposed to fresh air , ) ? 
thanks

     Thread Starter
 

7/18/2018 5:53 AM  #9


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

I think I've decided I'm going with one of these units.  They get very good reviews, have a lifetime warranty, are said to cool up to 600hp and are a direct bolt in factory replacement.


https://www.speedcooling.com/1964-1966-Ford-Mustang-Aluminum-Radiator-With-3300-CFM-17-FAN-289-V8.html

 

7/18/2018 6:18 AM  #10


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

My 68 took the Rada95 from CJ Pony.Fits great. Looks great.

 

7/18/2018 11:03 AM  #11


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

ok guys , i have just ordered the champion radiator 3 raw for  ford galaxie . I think will be good ! is a little wider than original but not so wide as mustang 1968 /1970.
i will see in august if enough.
Thanks all

     Thread Starter
 

7/18/2018 1:15 PM  #12


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

Alessandro wrote:

ok guys , i have just ordered the champion radiator 3 raw for  ford galaxie . I think will be good ! is a little wider than original but not so wide as mustang 1968 /1970.
i will see in august if enough.
Thanks all

 
How tall is it?
Just wondering why you want a Galaxie radiator when there are lots of good Mustang options


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

7/18/2018 8:19 PM  #13


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

My 65 uses a two row aluminum radiator that is a direct bolt in.  One of the nice features is that once I painted it with black radiator paint, it looks very close to original because it has stamped tanks instead of ones that are boxy and welded together.  It's fitted with a fan shroud and clutch fan (see my tips page on that).  Seems to keep it cool even in Dallas Texas with the temperature over 100F.


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
 

7/19/2018 12:58 AM  #14


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

MS wrote:

Alessandro wrote:

ok guys , i have just ordered the champion radiator 3 raw for  ford galaxie . I think will be good ! is a little wider than original but not so wide as mustang 1968 /1970.
i will see in august if enough.
Thanks all

 
How tall is it?
Just wondering why you want a Galaxie radiator when there are lots of good Mustang options

is 21 high   22 wide  core tichness 2.5    . inlet / outlet on pass side .  I know there are a lot of option but the wider 24 that is really 25.5 wide do not allows me to put it in due to ac pipes and battery . A couple of inch less make easy the swap without touching pipes and battery
The oem size alu 3 row for mustang seems to me little  and this is why i choose one that is bigger.
This aftermarket alu radiator wear in different application , not only galaxie .
i will need to cut the front sheet metal to perform better air flow as suggested .
I will tell you if will be my right choice or not 

     Thread Starter
 

7/19/2018 1:01 AM  #15


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

jkordzi wrote:

My 65 uses a two row aluminum radiator that is a direct bolt in.  One of the nice features is that once I painted it with black radiator paint, it looks very close to original because it has stamped tanks instead of ones that are boxy and welded together.  It's fitted with a fan shroud and clutch fan (see my tips page on that).  Seems to keep it cool even in Dallas Texas with the temperature over 100F.

Are you using ac ?  which is your water temp while riding on sunny days ?
thanks

     Thread Starter
 

7/19/2018 5:55 AM  #16


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

I had a heating issue on my 66 Coupe that was not fixed by new water pump, new lower radiator hose with a spring, stock aluminum radiator, or larger 69 radiator (cutting the radiator support and adding dual fan Contour fans) also flushed the cooling system with Evaporust to make sure water passages were cleared.  Finally pulled the intake and found a shop had partially blocked a water passage with the wrong gasket restricking flow.  Installed the correct intake gasket & heating issue fixed.  Had a bunch of new stuff on the car that looked good but turned out to be over kill.   Good luck fixing your issue.  Dennis

Last edited by Dkralc (7/19/2018 6:00 PM)


www.quadmat.com  Butyl Sound Deadener & Insulation
 

7/19/2018 6:33 AM  #17


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

Al,
I use a 20" two-row (1" tube) aluminum rad (core support trimmed) with a seven blade thermal-clutch fan, a proper shroud, spring in the lower hose, 20" AC condenser as close to the radiator as I could get it, and a stock water pump.  Our 66 with 5.0, aluminum heads will not get hot.  Highest temp I've seen is 215 while setting on the freeway, with the AC on, in Las Vegas with the ambient temperature at 120 degrees.  Normal driving sees the temp fluctuate up to and below the thermostat set point of 195.
We just set up the Falcon project the same way and that car left Tuesday for a 650 mile drive from here to Wichita, Kansas.  Upon arriving the owners reported to me that the car never got hot with the AC going, pulling 11K foot passes, running 75 on the Interstate, or setting in rush-hour traffic.  

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

7/19/2018 7:29 AM  #18


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

Alessandro wrote:

jkordzi wrote:

My 65 uses a two row aluminum radiator that is a direct bolt in.  One of the nice features is that once I painted it with black radiator paint, it looks very close to original because it has stamped tanks instead of ones that are boxy and welded together.  It's fitted with a fan shroud and clutch fan (see my tips page on that).  Seems to keep it cool even in Dallas Texas with the temperature over 100F.

Are you using ac ?  which is your water temp while riding on sunny days ?
thanks

My car does not have A/C or a temperature gauge since it still has the early 65 dash insert.  I took it out the other day and then measured the temperature of the radiator with an infrared thermometer and it was 195F.


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
 

7/19/2018 9:40 AM  #19


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

What kind of water pump do you have? I put a high capacity water pump on my engine and it tends to run the same as yours even with the bigger aluminum radiator. I wonder if the pump is causing the water to flow to fast through the the radiator to prevent it from getting cooled down. I have a 180 degree thermostat. Just a question for those that might know.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

7/19/2018 11:59 AM  #20


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

lowercasesteve wrote:

Alessandro wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

If you are buying a new radiator anyway I would not bother with copper/brass.  Aluminum is much better at rejecting heat than copper/brass, so they are more efficient.  There's a reason all new cars have aluminum radiators.  Sure, part of it is cost, and a copper/brass radiator is more durable than an aluminum/plastic tank OEM radiator (aftermarket all aluminum radiators are just as durable as copper/brass though).  The other part of it is weight, where aluminum is significantly lighter than copper/brass, and as cars got heavier because of all the electronic stuff in them the OEMs look everywhere they can to help cut weight.  BUT, a big part of it is that as engines started making more and more power they created more and more heat, and copper/brass just couldn't handle it anymore.  Consider than in '89 a Mustang 5.0 made 225HP, but by '02 my WRX made 227 HP with a 2.0 4 cylinder.  Most non turbo V6s now are pushing 300+HP.  Heat's got to be eliminated somehow.

I know MS and I feel differently on this, so I'll give you my side; go with an electric cooling fan.  I use a SPAL 30102082 in my '67 with a controller I built for about $30 worth of parts.  I have two relays (regular use and AC), a thermostatic switch, and an override switch.  I've driven the car on days when it was 95 degrees and 90+% humidity (heat index well above 100) and the engine never got over 210 degrees, and mostly ran at about 205.  I run a 180 degree thermostat and set the thermostatic switch at 195 degrees (fan on temperature).

I get the ruggedness and simplicity of a mechanical fan setup, but I return to the fact that no new cars, and few new trucks at this point, use a mechanical fan.  Almost everything is electronic.  That said, I run my SPAL because they are OEM quality.  I would not waste my money on a cheap fan, because they will fail.  Fans are an area where you definitely get what you pay for. 

So there you go, two points of view, no need to debate this issue again.  Part of it I know may also come down to what you can reasonably get in Italy. 

thanks , i have done all the right steps with spal fan . I have also used a new temp digital sender to know that the fan is not lowering nothing . More flow trough radiator in front of engine will not reduce temp
  Recently i open a new hole on the front valance ( rear licence plate ) and was the best solution to have more air flow .
Now i have the same result as you .  My willing is to lower the average 200 .

the ac radiator i think is responsable for the missing flow , without it i never had one problem.

I dont want to debate again, i am only looking for some solution.

The others all have good responses that I will not argue with.  It works for them.  In addition...I am an advocate of a Shelby front valence..  It uncovers about an additional third of the radiator to direct air flow and has walls that channel the air flow directly to the radiator.  So, whatever you do the valence will give you added cooling capacity.

The only problem may be with mounting the valence.  They are fiberglass and some of them have issues with bad-fitting mounting brackets.  They come with space for a bumper, or not, - your choice.  I got mine from Maier Racing back in the day.  They have since changed ownership, so I do not know quality and service.

To add to my previous post:

I have a 351w ~375hp.  Stock 66 dimension copper radiator with 4 rows. 180* thermostat.  5 blade flex fan. No shroud.  Shelby front valence.  I drove just fine last year in 100+ weather.  I think the Shelby valence works just as well as a shroud.  Why cut the sheet metal.

Of course, I do not have A/C.  That changes things a lot.  A shroud would be needed then I think.

Sometimes I think we over engineer our systems, or think about them too much.
 

Last edited by lowercasesteve (7/19/2018 12:04 PM)


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

7/19/2018 12:02 PM  #21


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

HudginJ3 wrote:

What kind of water pump do you have? I put a high capacity water pump on my engine and it tends to run the same as yours even with the bigger aluminum radiator. I wonder if the pump is causing the water to flow to fast through the the radiator to prevent it from getting cooled down. I have a 180 degree thermostat. Just a question for those that might know.

The water pump is GMB  and as they say is a high capacity  , but really i dont know .
I will change the thermostat into 160 deg .
From various post i have undestand that heat issue concern many aspect  .... Head gasket, water pump, thermostat and not last thing a problem during the rebuilding.
I have heard a lot of people have the same heat after rebuilding
Do you have ac ?
IMO my problem is coming from ac radiator that blow heat through water radiator and against engine. 
like a strange loop the engine is hotter because radiator work at limit

     Thread Starter
 

7/19/2018 5:55 PM  #22


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

I have a 70 with a bored and stroked 351W and a high flow water pump. I have A/C that has been converted to R134a and an aluminum 3 core radiator for a Boss 429. I replaced the standard tranny with an automatic trans also. I think the water pump is causing the water to go through the cooling system too fast not allowing it enough time in the radiator to cool down except that, that is the job of the thermostat to slow the flow to allow it to cool. I also think that the R134a conversion causes more heat in the engine just like you said. As long as I am cruising down the highway and not hot rodding it runs mid gage. As soon as I get in traffic it gets right up against the H line but not on it. When I move it cools down again. This is the way it runs now after I took off the engine driven fan system and put the Ford Contour electric fan system a couple of years ago. Prior to that I could not drive it any length of time with the A/C on. The only other Question I have is, How accurate is your temp gage? After all it's only 52 years old.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

7/19/2018 6:04 PM  #23


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

I think one of the things that is coming out of this discussion is that the more powerful the engine, the more heat it produces and the greater need for cooling capacity.  Add an A/C system and the total heat production increases.  If you have a mild 289/302 like I do, you can probably do fine with a stock sized aluminum radiator with a shroud and either a clutch or flex fan.  Drop in a larger more powerful motor and you probably need a larger capacity cooling system.


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
 

7/19/2018 6:56 PM  #24


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

jkordzi wrote:

I think one of the things that is coming out of this discussion is that the more powerful the engine, the more heat it produces and the greater need for cooling capacity.  Add an A/C system and the total heat production increases.  If you have a mild 289/302 like I do, you can probably do fine with a stock sized aluminum radiator with a shroud and either a clutch or flex fan.  Drop in a larger more powerful motor and you probably need a larger capacity cooling system.

 I agree, for my 331 I went with a Champion 24 inch three row.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

7/20/2018 2:44 AM  #25


Re: suggestions on 66 radiator

HudginJ3 wrote:

I have a 70 with a bored and stroked 351W and a high flow water pump. I have A/C that has been converted to R134a and an aluminum 3 core radiator for a Boss 429. I replaced the standard tranny with an automatic trans also. I think the water pump is causing the water to go through the cooling system too fast not allowing it enough time in the radiator to cool down except that, that is the job of the thermostat to slow the flow to allow it to cool. I also think that the R134a conversion causes more heat in the engine just like you said. As long as I am cruising down the highway and not hot rodding it runs mid gage. As soon as I get in traffic it gets right up against the H line but not on it. When I move it cools down again. This is the way it runs now after I took off the engine driven fan system and put the Ford Contour electric fan system a couple of years ago. Prior to that I could not drive it any length of time with the A/C on. The only other Question I have is, How accurate is your temp gage? After all it's only 52 years old.

Thanks for asking .
I add one digital professional sender into the thermostat housing to know exact temp. 
is not what i suppose and the old gauge should be read like this : 
at half  gauge means 165 f
at 3/4  gauge means  205 f 
a little more after 3/4  means water boiling point 212
on the H line means  between 212 and  240  

The 240 i have reached only one time on 150 miles trip on highway with ac on for hours . One time i open the hood and the ac radiator was damn extreme hot  !  the fan was blowing a terrific hot wind against engine ... 
The engine runs good at constant low temp that means from 165 and 200 and this is my goal .

     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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