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8/30/2017 5:52 PM  #1


Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Does anybody know the LENGTH of the clutch pedal rod(from pedal to z-bar)?
and the LENGTH of the clutch actuation rod(from z-bar to release bearing arm)?
Also....just how many(inches) does the pressure plate travel in before it disengages the clutch? This thang just doesn't feel right. I don't want the linkage to push the pressure plate in TOO far... butt......I need it to go in far enough to dis-engage the clutch from the tranny!!
Help me out pleeze if you can!!
Thanx
6sal6

Got the tranny ......bell.....pressure plate and clutch sitting on the floor AGAIN,
Put it all back together and it still would not release
The throw out bearing was  "toe-up" again!
I did  a dry run with the tranny out butt the bell still on and.....with the bearing clipped /wired on...the clutch LINKAGE works great!
I mighta toe-it-up when I stabbed the tranny the last time
Gonna replace "everything" WIAIT
Gonna  borrow a tranny jack and TRYto put it in bell AND tranny all at once.
We'll see

Last edited by 6sally6 (8/31/2017 7:02 PM)


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
 

8/30/2017 5:57 PM  #2


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Sal, I know a cable clutch system moves the lever arm 1" at the end of the cable. I bet it is similar on the hard linkage.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/31/2017 7:10 AM  #3


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

By the book it could be .128 to.194 ( I guessing that's what 1/8" to 3/16") depending what year we are talking about. That the play between the fork and the adj. rod seat ( no touch to touch inside off the clutch fingers). I can say for my 72 the next 1/2' to 5/8" is total release of the clutch. The 72 uses a longer fork from inside the bell pivot to adj. rod. So the early cars with shorter fork would all be less ( I'm guessing).So Inside the 72 this all happens in the first 2" of clutch pedal travel. That's one reason I would never take the BIG under the dash spring off as half way to the floor the pedal has almost no weight. Just enough to let it return. These old legs needs that help

 

8/31/2017 7:57 AM  #4


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

red351 wrote:

By the book it could be .128 to.194 ( I guessing that's what 1/8" to 3/16") depending what year we are talking about. That the play between the fork and the adj. rod seat ( no touch to touch inside off the clutch fingers). I can say for my 72 the next 1/2' to 5/8" is total release of the clutch. The 72 uses a longer fork from inside the bell pivot to adj. rod. So the early cars with shorter fork would all be less ( I'm guessing).So Inside the 72 this all happens in the first 2" of clutch pedal travel. That's one reason I would never take the BIG under the dash spring off as half way to the floor the pedal has almost no weight. Just enough to let it return. These old legs needs that help

Thanx Red (and Steve!)..........It seems my prob is....I have an adjustable clutch rod(from pedal to Z) I made from all-thread. I need to get that the right length to not over extend the lower rod (also adjustable) and the pressure plate. Anybody got a measurement on those two rods so I can have a good starting point?!!
 


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

8/31/2017 1:23 PM  #5


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

13 3/4", per the NPD site, for a 66. 

 

8/31/2017 7:23 PM  #6


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Sal, what kind of clutch is it? Finger or diaphram? I have gotten into the habit of putting an adjustable stop on the clutch pedal so I don't over travel. Same as gas pedal so I don't break throttle shafts. I seem to push them awfully hard!

 

9/01/2017 5:35 PM  #7


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

DC wrote:

Sal, what kind of clutch is it? Finger or diaphram? I have gotten into the habit of putting an adjustable stop on the clutch pedal so I don't over travel. Same as gas pedal so I don't break throttle shafts. I seem to push them awfully hard!

I thought about that!!
Now that I know the "first rod" is 13.75"  that helps me a lot fingering-out the linkage puzzle.
Might do a stop just to be shore!
6sal6
 


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/02/2017 8:14 AM  #8


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

I just measured a NOS rod. It's 13.25" on the center to center on the pins 13.75" From the outside of one pin to the outside of the other pin is 13.75".

Last edited by Huskinhano (9/02/2017 8:17 AM)


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/02/2017 5:50 PM  #9


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Huskinhano wrote:

I just measured a NOS rod. It's 13.25" on the center to center on the pins 13.75" From the outside of one pin to the outside of the other pin is 13.75".

Wonder how critical this length is?(give or take a 1/2")http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png

Regardless...I will need to make a new one(all thread with heim joints) my other one was 1" short...I believe.
6sally6
 


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/03/2017 11:48 AM  #10


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

6sally6 wrote:

Huskinhano wrote:

I just measured a NOS rod. It's 13.25" on the center to center on the pins 13.75" From the outside of one pin to the outside of the other pin is 13.75".

Wonder how critical this length is?(give or take a 1/2")http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png

Regardless...I will need to make a new one(all thread with heim joints) my other one was 1" short...I believe.
6sally6
 

What my guess and thoughts are, I'm not a engineer but having a electrical and some electronics background I'm aware of how angles react. As I said earlier the equalizer bar is going to be working line a sine wave. We've all seen that at one point or another. As the X axis or horizontal line goes in a flat line, the sine wave starts off at the same point but pretty soon it shoots at a pretty quick rate as it approaches the 90° angle and falls off at the same rate. That 90° in the sine wave is exactly the same point as the clutch rod to the equalizer arm. We all know the U joints must be 180° out of phase. This is to cancel out the sine wave from the first U joint. The result is the rear axle yoke is spinning the same rate as the yoke on the transmission. So with this thought, the same applies to the equalizer to the fork push rod. What you want is the rods from the clutch pedal is going to that 90° angle, the Ford push rod leaving the equalizer at the same rate. Their angles should be exactly opposite for a smooth, linear or equal travel. I think they be travels of both rods midway through their travels should be at 90°, not at rest. So I believe with the clutch engaged and the pedal resting, the angle needs to be less then 90° and the fork side more then 90°.

If the rod from the pedal is too short, then both rods will be approaching 90° and adding to increase effort. I don't claim this will fix the problem or even if this is a concern or design feature it's just something I see. I could be going off on a tangent, no pun intended. Maybe someone smarter then me can comment, Steve?


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/03/2017 12:16 PM  #11


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Huskinhano, you are heading in the right direction. Now if you are using a helper spring on the clutch like a lot of OEM setups had, it gets even more interesting since most were designed to come into play once part of the linkage gets "over center". They require all the forces to balance such that the pedal will actually return when you want it to. So the geometry of those angles is important. I usually get rid of the helper springs and use a simple return spring. That way I can set the rod lengths to put the pedal where I want it and to bottom on the floor before damaging the pressure plate with over travel.

 

9/04/2017 8:12 PM  #12


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Interesting.......(maybe a little over my head with the sine wave talk)
I like DC's comment about using a stop to prevent  over travel butt....my question is, how do you KNOW when the TO bearing is  totally depressing the pressure plate( without OVER pressing) when you CAN'T SEE IT because its inside the bell housing??!!
I want to cut a window in the side of the bell housing sooooo bad  to see what's going on!!http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/furious.png

6s6


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/04/2017 9:28 PM  #13


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

DC wrote:

Huskinhano, you are heading in the right direction. Now if you are using a helper spring on the clutch like a lot of OEM setups had, it gets even more interesting since most were designed to come into play once part of the linkage gets "over center". They require all the forces to balance such that the pedal will actually return when you want it to. So the geometry of those angles is important. I usually get rid of the helper springs and use a simple return spring. That way I can set the rod lengths to put the pedal where I want it and to bottom on the floor before damaging the pressure plate with over travel.

Got rid of my big spring too. I have a light one in just to keep things from rattling.
 


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/04/2017 9:36 PM  #14


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Mike, with the sine wave To visualize what's going on, think of a piston going up and down in the bore. When the piston is at TDC, you don't see it move hardly as you rotate the crank. As you keep turning the crank, the piston starts to move faster as the connecting rod approaches a 90* angle to the crank pin. If you turned the crank at a steady speed, the speed of the piston varies as it goes up or down.


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/05/2017 7:31 AM  #15


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Sal, I usually have the car on a lift or jack stands so I can put it in gear and turn the rear wheels. As I push on the clutch pedal my helper tries to turn the rear wheels and lets me know when they start to turn, and that is where in the clutch travel the clutch is releasing. I add a little more  and set the stop.

 

9/05/2017 8:20 AM  #16


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Huskinhano wrote:

6sally6 wrote:

Huskinhano wrote:

I just measured a NOS rod. It's 13.25" on the center to center on the pins 13.75" From the outside of one pin to the outside of the other pin is 13.75".

Wonder how critical this length is?(give or take a 1/2")http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png

Regardless...I will need to make a new one(all thread with heim joints) my other one was 1" short...I believe.
6sally6
 

What my guess and thoughts are, I'm not a engineer but having a electrical and some electronics background I'm aware of how angles react. As I said earlier the equalizer bar is going to be working line a sine wave. We've all seen that at one point or another. As the X axis or horizontal line goes in a flat line, the sine wave starts off at the same point but pretty soon it shoots at a pretty quick rate as it approaches the 90° angle and falls off at the same rate. That 90° in the sine wave is exactly the same point as the clutch rod to the equalizer arm. We all know the U joints must be 180° out of phase. This is to cancel out the sine wave from the first U joint. The result is the rear axle yoke is spinning the same rate as the yoke on the transmission. So with this thought, the same applies to the equalizer to the fork push rod. What you want is the rods from the clutch pedal is going to that 90° angle, the Ford push rod leaving the equalizer at the same rate. Their angles should be exactly opposite for a smooth, linear or equal travel. I think they be travels of both rods midway through their travels should be at 90°, not at rest. So I believe with the clutch engaged and the pedal resting, the angle needs to be less then 90° and the fork side more then 90°.

If the rod from the pedal is too short, then both rods will be approaching 90° and adding to increase effort. I don't claim this will fix the problem or even if this is a concern or design feature it's just something I see. I could be going off on a tangent, no pun intended. Maybe someone smarter then me can comment, Steve?

This makes sense to me and I think it's sound theory.... but I will also add that when I installed my tri-y headers I had to make my upper rod longer and my lower rod shorter (to keep from hitting the headers) and I have had no negative results after having driven it a couple thousand miles like this (maybe more).

 

9/07/2017 6:27 PM  #17


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

May have the problem "whooped" this time!!
Clutch feels good and all I need is a couple quarts of AT fluid
(to make for the GALLONS that ran down my arm and ear and all over the floor)!
Prolly get to road test tomorrow.......I'm sure I'll hold my breath every time I mash the clutch  for a while.
Gonna pull a MS's daughter's trick and try parking in a parking garage  for this bad weather that might come.
6s6


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/07/2017 6:37 PM  #18


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

6sally6 wrote:

May have the problem "whooped" this time!!
Clutch feels good and all I need is a couple quarts of AT fluid
(to make for the GALLONS that ran down my arm and ear and all over the floor)!
Prolly get to road test tomorrow.......I'm sure I'll hold my breath every time I mash the clutch  for a while.
Gonna pull a MS's daughter's trick and try parking in a parking garage  for this bad weather that might come.
6s6

Stay safe Mike, and great idea of putting the Mustang on an upper level parking spot, remember all the flooding last October. All that rain was from a cat 1 storm, this one is gonna be a 4.
 See you when we are  down there, we are staying in Garden City this year.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   “My tastes are simple: I am easily satisfied with the best"
 

9/08/2017 7:42 PM  #19


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Rudi wrote:

6sally6 wrote:

May have the problem "whooped" this time!!
Clutch feels good and all I need is a couple quarts of AT fluid
(to make for the GALLONS that ran down my arm and ear and all over the floor)!
Prolly get to road test tomorrow.......I'm sure I'll hold my breath every time I mash the clutch  for a while.
Gonna pull a MS's daughter's trick and try parking in a parking garage  for this bad weather that might come.
6s6

Stay safe Mike, and great idea of putting the Mustang on an upper level parking spot, remember all the flooding last October. All that rain was from a cat 1 storm, this one is gonna be a 4.
 See you when we are  down there, we are staying in Garden City this year.

Sweeet!!......I think you'll like Garden City.
Reminds me of the "beach" back in the 60's!!
Let me know when ya'll get there
6sally6/Mike
 


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/09/2017 9:17 PM  #20


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

This may NOT be good!.........................
Clutch works great! Adjusted just right!
Next problem................ Since the clutch feisco  I've had a problem of water in the gas. Runs like poop.....shudders terrible.....idle runs up & down....skips and misses.
Drained the old gas replaced with a few gallons of good gas and it cleared up.........for a while.
Now its making a strange noise like a leaking header flange and an intermittent miss. When I get the RPM up between 2000-4000 the whole car sorta viberates (whether driving or out of gear)
Could this be a blown head gasket?!
Could water in the gas cause a blown head gasket?!!
Could ANYTHING ELSE go worng before the MS Bash?
Is there STILL gonna be a FWB to HAVE a MS Bash? (after the storm)

What are some ways to check for a blown gasket and determine which side?
6sal6 


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/09/2017 9:21 PM  #21


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

If it's very blown I'd think that a compression check would show it.   Maybe.

Nobody listens to me...I TOLE YOU NOT to mess around with that new clutch with only a month before the Bash.  Nobody listens...

BB

 


"Bash 2016, Montrose, Colorado...you shoulda been there"
 

9/10/2017 11:44 AM  #22


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Yeah butt.....when it won't come outta gear.   Gotta do sump 'in.
I look at owning a classic mustang like pick'in grapes an all....probs come in bunches
If I pull a plug it should be snow  white right?


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/14/2017 9:15 AM  #23


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

If you have water in the gas, it's not going to help things. That would be the first thing to fix. Maybe a burnt plug wire? Sometimes with a bad head gasket you'll get bubbles in the coolant. Absolutely do a compression check. That'll tell you real fast.

Last edited by Huskinhano (9/14/2017 9:15 AM)


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/14/2017 4:08 PM  #24


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Huskinhano wrote:

If you have water in the gas, it's not going to help things. That would be the first thing to fix. Maybe a burnt plug wire? Sometimes with a bad head gasket you'll get bubbles in the coolant. Absolutely do a compression check. That'll tell you real fast.

"Acted like a girl"...and over re-acted.
Here's the deal...........had missing between 2000-4000RPM.....idled "funny" butt smooth enough(considering the cam timing)....made a strange puff-puffing sound especially on one side.
Results of troubleshooting and not "female-hand-wringing"  Plug wire was just barrrrrely hanging on to the terminal on the plug(pulled it off/on several times...last time I pulled it, the terminal was still on the plug!)
                                                                                              When changing plugs the Einstein behind the counter gave me the worng heat range of plug when he cross-referenced it to the Autolite plug. Swapped those out.
                                                                                                Puff-puffing sound was a blown header gasket AND a hole in the passenger side header. Welded up hole and replaced gasket. Feel real good everything will be back to normal when finished.
Getting closer to CtC and MSBB trip!!
6sal6

Last edited by 6sally6 (9/14/2017 4:09 PM)


"Get busy liv'in............or get busy die'n!!"
     Thread Starter
 

9/15/2017 8:10 AM  #25


Re: Clutch linkage questions.........UPDATE,,)

Glad it wasn't anything serious and easy to fix. Sometimes when you're at the opposite end of a key board it's like that game where one person describes an elephant and the other sees a mouse.


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

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