FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

9/07/2017 11:32 AM  #1


Bump steer kits

I've been looking at bump steer kits for my 66. I have stock front suspension and steering, all in very good shape with poly bushings, Shelby drop, 620 springs, sway bar, 235-45-17 tires. Bump steer isn't bad but for what these things cost if they do as advertised it seems like a good idea. Has any body installed a kit and if so which one and how did it perform?


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
 

9/07/2017 2:43 PM  #2


Re: Bump steer kits

My opinion on extensions for tie rods. 
Rather than rely on a part that puts a lever arm on the tie rod bolt, I would put up with the bumpsteer.

How much is your car lowered?  (Only real reference of that is dimension from center of wheel to underside of fender lip.)


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/07/2017 3:20 PM  #3


Re: Bump steer kits

They do work.  Pretty common, but not all created equal.  You want one that has adjustability.  Ideally you would check bumpsteer with a gauge and adjust as needed, but most likely you're going to have to do it by trial an error. 

I certainly see MS's point.  If its a street driven car you tend to just learn to auto correct for the bumpsteer.  If its a track car, or one you may want to wring out on a road course from time to time I would opt to eliminate the bumpsteer to the greatest extent possible. 

 

9/07/2017 5:19 PM  #4


Re: Bump steer kits

I had a bump steer kit for a few years  (got it from an outfit in Utah I think)  Did nothing for my '66.  Took it off and no change in steering.  I have Shelby drop and GT springs; 12" from wheel center to bottom of fender.  BS did not leave till I installed rack & pinion steering.

​But TKO road races and so knows a lot more than I on the issue.

​TKO: Where might one get an adjustable bump steer kit?

Last edited by lowercasesteve (9/07/2017 5:33 PM)


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

9/07/2017 7:02 PM  #5


Re: Bump steer kits

Check out this one from Mustang's Plus:

http://www.mustangsplus.com/1965-1966-Mustang-Total-Control-Bump-Steer-Kit.html

You add or subtract spacers as needed to achieve (in theory) zero bumpsteer.  This is how I addressed the issue on my '89 GT (except that kit came from Steeda).  When lowered all Fox cars have bumpsteer.  They sell offset rack bushings, but we found those often exacerbate the bumpsteer they are designed to correct.  The only real fix is to be able to get the tie rods parallel to the ground at ride height with the rack in the stock location.  With the minimal suspension travel typical on a lowered car this 90-100% solves the issue. 

Last edited by TKOPerformance (9/07/2017 7:02 PM)

 

9/07/2017 7:49 PM  #6


Re: Bump steer kits

There's a plethora of kits found when you search for "mustang bump steer kit".  I didn't care to spend the big bucks on a kit since the individual parts would be much less of my hard earned cash. I turned the 6061-T6 1-1/8" hex rod on my lathe, center drilled it for threads and tapped it. I bought the studs, QA1 rod ends and hex rod   for less than half the cost of a kit at the time. I used a spring in place of the spacers when checking and moving the tie rods vertically until I found the best amount of drop for the tie rod location to reduce bump steer.

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/robertpmcdougal/IMG_20150525_115054_zpss6ladsw1.jpg


Then I made a spacer to that measurement. I didn't eliminate all the bump steer, but it has next to none. The car drives great imho. I'd rather not have the leverage of the adapter, and will take a better handling car over a theoretical problem. The longer the rod adapter stud is made from 4140 chromoly so I'm comfortable with its strength. But that's just my opinion.  If Ford engineers had done a better job designing our cars, think of all the fun we'd be missing!


http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/robertpmcdougal/IMG_20150310_162924_zps0guyo7ci.jpg


This is the second set of adjusters I made.  They are threaded for 11/16-18 on the inner L/H thread and 3/4-16 on the R/H rod end side to fit a quality rod end which is not available for the 11/16-18 oem tie rod size.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2z527ie.jpg

Last edited by rpm (9/07/2017 11:42 PM)


Bob    69 Mach 351w, fmx Build-:http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44555-the--oh no I used a word I shouldn't have--is-back/
 

9/08/2017 10:43 AM  #7


Re: Bump steer kits

If I had the tools and skills RPM has I would do as he did. But since I don't y'all have pretty much convinced me to live with what I have. It's really not that bad and is really fun to drive. The added excitement and pucker factor when it unexpectedly jumps in one direction or the other just adds a little excitement to an old guys day.


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
     Thread Starter
 

9/08/2017 10:58 AM  #8


Re: Bump steer kits

Most kits are available around $150. When I was looking into it, Baer was the only player and priced at twice that amount. $150 seems reasonable to me.


Bob    69 Mach 351w, fmx Build-:http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44555-the--oh no I used a word I shouldn't have--is-back/
 

9/09/2017 4:30 PM  #9


Re: Bump steer kits

Read the instructions on the kit from Total Control Products on the install and adjustment of bump steer it's not very easy to get right. I was able to do it but only because I installed coil overs and total control rack on my 69 Mach and had the use of a Hunter aligner and someone to help. I had my car lowered to 25" from the top of the front fender arc with 225x40r17 tires.


IF IT'S TO LOUD YOUR TO OLD
 

9/10/2017 5:48 AM  #10


Re: Bump steer kits

OR, you an buy a bump steer gauge from Maximum Motorsports for $120 plus shipping.  Check ti out:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Bumpsteer-Gauge-P193.aspx

 

9/10/2017 10:53 AM  #11


Re: Bump steer kits

BillyC wrote:

If I had the tools and skills RPM has I would do as he did. But since I don't y'all have pretty much convinced me to live with what I have. It's really not that bad and is really fun to drive. The added excitement and pucker factor when it unexpectedly jumps in one direction or the other just adds a little excitement to an old guys day.

 
That is most likely NOT the result of bumpsteer.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/10/2017 7:01 PM  #12


Re: Bump steer kits

Yeah, gotta agree with MS on that.  Bumpsteer is when you go over a bump and the wheel unexpectedly turns in your hand.  The car shouldn't change trajectory though.  If the front end is moving around over bumps (darty) I would think the alignment is likely off, particularly caster. 

 

9/11/2017 7:00 AM  #13


Re: Bump steer kits

Basically the tie rod is supposed to be in parallel motion with the lower control arm. If not, you get bump steer. When these cars were built, springs were new, ball joints and pivot bushings were new and all was good enough for those less than fantastic tires we had then. After 50 years later and many replaced parts, not all of original design means we get to worry about bump steer. I have a kit like rpm's on my race car that runs huge very sticky tires at ridiculous speeds, that has whacked lots of stuff, been airborne, and have bent everything but those bolts and rod ends. I have replaced lower control arms, spindles, and everything but those bolts. If you want the same bump steer curve as stock (which was pretty good), you need to do it. That is if you car is lowered from stock and you expect it to steer like original. Original did have some bump steer, but at design ride height, it was minimal.

 

9/12/2017 4:41 AM  #14


Re: Bump steer kits

The bump steer gauge is for 1979 & up doesn't work on the vintage  Mustang.


IF IT'S TO LOUD YOUR TO OLD
 

9/12/2017 7:30 AM  #15


Re: Bump steer kits

I use that style on just about everything. You just need to space out the plate to miss the end of the spindle.

 

9/12/2017 4:47 PM  #16


Re: Bump steer kits

What is your car doing that you think you need a bumpsteer kit? I have a Baer kit on my 66. I bought it because I put 72 disc brakes on. I have a heavily modified suspension that is lowered, camber kit and I needed outer tie rod ens to match the 72 spindles. I know the right way is to use a bump steer gauge. I started to make one but in the end I red neck "tuned" it driving over the crest in the road in front of my neighbor's house.I just kept adding spacers until it handled the crest without any issues.

I'm not a suspension expert but I have done all my own work including alignment. I have my car driving pretty well. I think a issue with these cars is just too much travel. I think or feel there is more travel then the tie rods can accommodate. On my car I observed the rod end running out of travel before the suspension did. When this happened, camber went from negative to positive and the tires toed in. It could be the rod ends don't have enough range of motion or it could be what's happening with stock tie rods but we don't see it happening because of the boot. I don't know. These are rear steer cars. As the suspension droops, the tires toe in and under compression, toe out. When the suspension is completely stock, for argument sake let's say the suspension is in the middle of it's travel. When toe is set, when the suspension moves to the extreme either way the toe change may not be enough to really feel anything and the change of toe from one extreme to the other may be significant but again, it's split. Now when the car is lowered, that split in travel is not the same. It's biased more for droop. Now you set your toe in this new, lower ride height, you still have that same over all toe change but it's not split evenly. You now have more range of toe in then toe out. I think this is what we are experiencing and why the front stays up and tires squeal. While working on my car I thought about experimenting with either zero toe or even some toe out with my 72 spindles. I felt like I might be onto something when I saw MS suggest running zero toe on 65/66 with Granada spindles with the Arning drop. I spoke with Dennis on the phone who is the owner of CSRP disc brakes. He told me the only difference between the Granada/67& later Mustang compared to the 65/66 spindles is the tie rod arms have less offset by .500". On the VFM forum he has stated that the Granada spindle is the same forging as the 70& later Mustang except for the bolt hole sizes for the caliper brackets. You can try running more caster too. As you increase caster for a given toe setting, the over all length of the tie rod assembly increases which makes a more gradual arc and less influence. Each 1* caster offsets that .500" difference by .100" roughly. At 5* caster, it should be roughly the same bumpsteer or what ever as a stock 65/66 set to stock specs I feel.

Personally I would not use poly anything in the suspension except on the sway bar links. I would not use it in the lower arm as it follows the arc of the strut. I would either use a stock rubber bushing or mono bearing which is what I use.

Last edited by Huskinhano (9/12/2017 4:48 PM)


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

9/12/2017 10:04 PM  #17


Re: Bump steer kits

Huskinhano is the reason I decided to do my own front end alignment, and I thank him for that.  In an effort to get less understeer, I set the toe at 1/16" toe out. While it was successful at not having any understeer, it was too twitchy on the crappy local city streets. My set up and roll around tires were some hundred year old rock hard Michelin run flats, which made the ride less than optimal.

I recently bought some new Michelin Pilot Sport tires and had them mounted today. I also added a quarter turn on the tie rod adjuster of toe in.

I took my 69 for a test drive and couldn't believe the difference the toe in and new tires made. It tracked straight going over bumps at intersections and when braking hard, and I was able to take my hands off of the steering wheel doing both.

After following Tom's advice, I too would recommended those with mechanical aptitude to do your own alignments.

Last edited by rpm (9/12/2017 10:06 PM)


Bob    69 Mach 351w, fmx Build-:http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44555-the--oh no I used a word I shouldn't have--is-back/
 

9/13/2017 4:53 AM  #18


Re: Bump steer kits

I'm a big proponent of doing your own alignment too.  I set mine years ago because the places I took it to could never seem to get it right.  It initially took a bit of trial and error, but once I had it dialed in the car tracks dead straight and handles much, much better.  Part of it may be shops still using the old '60s specs which were designed for bias ply tires.  Part of it may just be a lack of understanding of what's going on in the suspension beyond knowing what to turn to change the settings.  All I know is that the way I did it worked, and it has held alignment for over a decade.

On toe, you typically want toe in of about 1/16".  Any more and the tires scrub and make noise.  Any less and handling is adversely affected.  Toe out should only be used on a short road course.  It improves turn in, making tight corners easier and faster to negotiate, but the downside is it makes the car overly responsive to steering input (twitchy). 

 

9/13/2017 10:35 AM  #19


Re: Bump steer kits

TKOPerformance wrote:

I'm a big proponent of doing your own alignment too.  I set mine years ago because the places I took it to could never seem to get it right.  It initially took a bit of trial and error, but once I had it dialed in the car tracks dead straight and handles much, much better.  Part of it may be shops still using the old '60s specs which were designed for bias ply tires.  Part of it may just be a lack of understanding of what's going on in the suspension beyond knowing what to turn to change the settings.  All I know is that the way I did it worked, and it has held alignment for over a decade.

I'm interested in how you go about doing your own alignment. What if any special equipment is needed? Could you maybe do a right up in the how to page?
On toe, you typically want toe in of about 1/16".  Any more and the tires scrub and make noise.  Any less and handling is adversely affected.  Toe out should only be used on a short road course.  It improves turn in, making tight corners easier and faster to negotiate, but the downside is it makes the car overly responsive to steering input (twitchy). 


"anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.