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12/19/2017 2:11 PM  #1


351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

I had a 351W built for a Corba 427 kit car that never happened. Dyno’d (flywheel) 425hp 405 tq. at Kim Barr Racing in Garland.
Satisfied, I pulled the Holly 750 off, drained the run-in oil and coolant, Wrapped it up, and shoved it under the workbench. I was told to rotate the flywheel yearly...never happened, figured I’d get around to it later, then moved on to other things...
THinking about rolling it out and putting it to use during 2018.

Does storing a new motor 8+ years affect anything? (valve springs? hyd. lifters?) Other than the usual start-up stuff like rotating the assembly with oil down the spark plug holes, priming the oil pump, etc., can I pop it in and see what happens? Can I expect it to be junk?

I don’t have an urgent need for the motor—just saw it back there while doing some cleaning and thought I’d ask y’all’s opinion.

Thanks and Merry CHristmas!
Paul

 

12/19/2017 2:29 PM  #2


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

I let mine sit for one year after brake-in. Did the oil in cylinders and fired her up. It took a while for the rings to set, and it blew oil out the dipstick tube for a while.

Last edited by rpm (12/19/2017 2:30 PM)


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

12/19/2017 3:15 PM  #3


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Flat tappet? or roller cam?
 

 

12/19/2017 3:37 PM  #4


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Flat tappet. Edelbrock RPM alum cyl heads

     Thread Starter
 

12/19/2017 7:05 PM  #5


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

I wouldn't worry about the bottom end.  Prime the oil system prior to fire up and it'll be good.  I think the cam should be fine too.  Its already been broken in, so make sure to use a ZDDP additive in the oil and I think you're good to go so long as it rotates through smoothly.  You could shoot a little oil in the cylinders to be safe, or just fill the pan and rock it side to side a few times.  I've started plenty of engines that sat for that long, or longer, with no issues.  If it was outside in the elements open, might be a different story. 

Only real concern would be rodent infiltration.  I'd probably pull the intake and pan just to visually inspect that there's no nesting going on.  I saw a mouse nest lock up and oil pump once and turn an engine into junk.  It had been sitting in a barn on a farm though for an unknown length of time. 

 

12/19/2017 7:52 PM  #6


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

My main concerns would be corrosion. First, the cylinders, which are probably fine. The second thing, and it could result in catastrophic failure, would be rust on the valve springs. One tiny spec on a spring can cause the spring to break, and that would result in a dropped valve. If it looks ok, clean it up and go for it.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/21/2017 11:46 AM  #7


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

MS wrote:

My main concerns would be corrosion. First, the cylinders, which are probably fine. The second thing, and it could result in catastrophic failure, would be rust on the valve springs. One tiny spec on a spring can cause the spring to break, and that would result in a dropped valve. If it looks ok, clean it up and go for it.

  Seriously! 
 

 

12/22/2017 11:23 AM  #8


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

If it sat for that long, I would be concerned about any remaining oil coating on the cam and lifter faces.  The cam surfaces lubricate from crank throwoff and I suspect it has all drained by now.  If nothing else, follow TKO and MS recommendations about priming and inspect the springs, then back off the rocker arms to unload the lifters from the cam.  Spin the engine so any lube from the crank will reach the camshaft.

 

12/22/2017 5:20 PM  #9


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

66 coupe wrote:

If it sat for that long, I would be concerned about any remaining oil coating on the cam and lifter faces.  The cam surfaces lubricate from crank throwoff and I suspect it has all drained by now.  If nothing else, follow TKO and MS recommendations about priming and inspect the springs, then back off the rocker arms to unload the lifters from the cam.  Spin the engine so any lube from the crank will reach the camshaft.

 
Are you saying to back off the rocker adjustment until there is huge clearance?  Or what?  This is a new concept for me and I can see some disasterous results!

Splainitplease


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/22/2017 9:52 PM  #10


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

I'm heading to Summit (Arlington TX) to get an Engine Run Stand. I'll mount the engine in the stand and then do all of the things mentioned above. Nothing wrong with any of the advice mentioned above. 

​I believe that I will back off the rockers 3/4 turn or 1 full turn in order to fully oil the tappets. The top end (cam/heads/intake) of this motor is the best part of it. 

​I'll post the results after the New Year
 

     Thread Starter
 

12/23/2017 9:52 AM  #11


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Back off the rockers entirely, completely unload the lifters.  Spin the engine with the starter only, not running.  That removes the high friction point at the lifter and cam surface.  When you have a good comfort factor, readjust the valve clearance.  Flat tappet?  Hydraulic or solid?

 

12/25/2017 2:03 PM  #12


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

     Thread Starter
 

12/25/2017 2:11 PM  #13


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Found a pic of the motor after I got it home. 
​After I donated the Edel RPM Air Gap to a charity build for soldiers, I messed around with an 8-stack EFI that I want to use. Alas, wrong cam profile for EFI...darn. AND I have the correct front sump oil pan to go on the bottom.
​I just hate going in to an already sure-fire motor and swap out stuff. The oil pan should be pretty easy. 

     Thread Starter
 

12/25/2017 5:08 PM  #14


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

How can you have a wrong cam profile for EFI?

 

12/25/2017 11:21 PM  #15


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Depending on the setup most EFI systems do not like a tight LSA.  They don't do well with overlap.  Typical EFI cams are on a 112-114 degree LSA.

 

12/25/2017 11:59 PM  #16


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

+1 to TKO...
​In layman's terms, EFI doesn't like the thumping rumpity-rump cam "events" and needs a needs less overlap / you can still go pretty radical with the grind. 

     Thread Starter
 

12/29/2017 6:06 PM  #17


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Less lsa   butt more duration....?
Will FI handle that...AND lift of course?


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

12/29/2017 8:19 PM  #18


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

I say to-MAYto—You say ta-motto...
By radical I meant “extreme”
Example: Ford Racing has a group of roller EFI cams starting with letters B, E, F, X, Z etc.  Each increases lift and slightly modifies the shape of the roller cam’s egg. The profile always provides 112 to 114 degrees of “closed” time to increase vacuum that the EFI relies on to prevent backfiring thru the throttle bodies.
That’s the simple explanation. Check out the Fuel Injection sub-topics on various Cobra 427 kit car forums.

     Thread Starter
 

1/01/2018 8:57 AM  #19


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

In a nutshell, most EFI systems use reference values from a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor.  Speed density systems are heavily reliant upon this sensor, though mass air systems still use it as well.  If manifold vacuum at idle is too low the system goes haywire trying to get a smooth idle.

There is an alternative, which is the third version of EFI called Alpha-N.  Alpha-N is a very simplistic scheme available on some aftermarket EFI systems where the fuel curve is basically pre-calibrated using throttle angle and coolant temp as references.  The issue with Alpha-N is that it works great for 1/4 mile racing, but not for anything dynamic like road courses or street use.

But, this shouldn't be a concern.  Plenty of guys have run very powerful EFI cars, and that takes a "big" cam.  Its just that the cam needs to be ground with EFI use in mind, which will widen up the LSA as compared to a cam designed for use with a carb.  Higher lift with shorter duration is another trick, which reduces overlap, but still provides adequate filling time for the cylinders at higher RPM.  Lots of magic in a cam, which is why picking one out of the book for applications like this is a bad idea.  I always advise calling the tech line at Crane, Comp, etc.  I'll plug Crane because I've had great luck with them, and their tech department is responsive and knowledgeable. 

 

1/02/2018 10:33 AM  #20


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

There is also the hybrid Alpha-N approach that is in at least the Holley HP ecu.  It uses Alpha-N up to a user selected rpm and then changes to the traditional MAP sensor.  This may be the route I end up taking.

The other issue with an 8 stack EFI system is the lack of the IAC control to help manage idle rpm.  Because the ecu's are so heavily dependent upon vacuum, Hilborn does not recommend "sharing" vacuum with any other sensor.  The intake is plumbed with vacuum lines to a plenum block, but is a single source dedicated to the MAP sensor.  They will not plumb a second vacuum system into their intake, (but I might) 

I'll eventually get it figured out.

Still looks cooler than all get out.
 

 

1/02/2018 6:40 PM  #21


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Jimj wrote:

Still looks cooler than all get out.
 

Word/amen/absolutely/withouta doubt/true dat......plenty cool!
Besides....who would cover those stacks with an air cleaner?!! Just don't drive on dirt roads.
6sal6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/02/2018 9:04 PM  #22


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

...um, so, yeah, what they said...sure

     Thread Starter
 

1/05/2018 2:02 AM  #23


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Really big unplanned shopping spree today at Summitt Racing in Arlington. WOW what a place.
​Got the engine run-in stand to test run this 351W and several other new motors that I have stored for other street rod projects. 
​I'll apply all of the advice I've received here and let you know what happens (good OR bad).
​Side note: finally my 17 year old son is starting to play with cars and sees a point to working in the garage...huh! Who knew?!

Paul

     Thread Starter
 

1/07/2018 6:12 PM  #24


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?



Put the run stand together. Grabbed some odds and ends / things from various corners of the garage and got it close to ready. Starter, headers and mufflers are setting just out of the picture.

The silver 351W and the red 302 in the background will be the first on the stand.

I have an external pump/filter and lines to run and tune EFI if needed.

Winter-time fun!

     Thread Starter
 

1/08/2018 11:48 AM  #25


Re: 351W new, stored since ‘09 Advice?

Nice rig!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


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