FYI FORD MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum / Primed my car

**Posted by jkordzi** 3/01/2016 11:14 PM

Or most of it at least. I had sanded my 65 FB down to bare metal and aligned the panels and adjusted the door gaps, fixed a few minor dings and dents, and generally did as much work as I could while it was in bare metal. Last Sunday, I disassembled it and primed the hood, doors, fenders, deck lid, valences, and fender extensions. This weekend, I'm going to shoot the body shell. I used a cheap HF gun set up almost a full fan spray with about 30 psi with the trigger pulled, run by a 5 hp 25 gallon compressor (the one I did a tip/how-to on with an aftercooler). The compressor cycled a lot but always kept the psi at 30. The aftercooler worked well, but I ran it thru another water trap just to be sure. However, the second water trap didn't collect any water. I shot the parts in my garage with the door wide open and no plastic on the walls and didn't have any overspray problems (the primer is black and my walls are white).

I used TAMCO 5311 primer and am very happy with it. It's a very thick primer with a rust inhibitor in it so it can be painted over flash rust (not that I had any). It's a direct-to-metal alternative to the usual epoxy + sandable primer route, so it saves you a step and another chance of having an adhesion problem. It's also cheaper. It's a 4:1 mix, but per the manufacturer, I reduced it about 10% to make it flow out a little easier. It's a high build primer and three coats covered all of my sanding scratches. I removed the old paint with 40 grit, followed by 80 and then 180 - all on a DA. It sands easy and doesn't clog the paper. I chose TAMCO because I read a lot of good reviews of it over on Autobody101 and was able to talk to the president of the company, Tammy, several times on the phone and was impressed with what I heard. I'll post some pictures after I spray the body shell and reassemble prior to block sanding.

I've decided to go with a single stage, non-metallic color coat. TAMCO will supply that as well. I've seen many factory applied base coat/clear coat failures and have come to regard that paint system as inferior to a good single stage. In fact, I just had my son's car repainted under warranty because of a clear coat failure. I also want to avoid the super high gloss look for my car, preferring the more moderate gloss level of the 60s/70s paints. I know many will differ with me, but it seems to me that the manufacturers favor base coat/clear coat for production purposes and because they can get away with applying as thin of a base coat (translate: cheapest) as possible. Also, since I'm also not going with a metallic, I don't see any advantages over a single stage paint. The inevitable touch-ups will also be a lot easier. I'm hoping to be able to shoot my single stage paint in the garage with the door opened as well, and then cut and buff out any imperfections. Opinions of course are welcome.

Last edited by jkordzi (3/01/2016 11:17 PM)

**Posted by True74yamaha** 3/02/2016 4:38 PM

Is that primer you used a 2k primer?

**Posted by jkordzi** 3/02/2016 7:18 PM

True74yamaha wrote:
Is that primer you used a 2k primer?

Yes - It's mixed 4:1, but added a bit of reduced to make it flow better so I was at about 4:1:0.5.

**Posted by True74yamaha** 3/02/2016 10:57 PM

jkordzi wrote:
True74yamaha wrote:
Is that primer you used a 2k primer?
Yes - It's mixed 4:1, but added a bit of reduced to make it flow better so I was at about 4:1:0.5.

Make sure to coat that with an epoxy sealer if you sand threw it at all! 2k sealers are not recommended for a bare metal surface. Yes they have bare metal adhesion properties, but most people even paint supply shop people don't realize they obsorbe water like a spung and will rust crack and delaminate horribly bad... Epoxy is the only recommended base/sealer when preping for paint. A 2k primer is used over the top over a properly prepaired epoxy. Also I know you didn't use a lacqure primer but they are about the same as a 2k when it comes to obsorbing water. I don't mean to bash your hard work only stating the truth on misunderstood products. Hope info helps you in the future. Also how and what did you use to prep your surface?

Last edited by True74yamaha (3/02/2016 11:01 PM)

**Posted by jkordzi** 3/03/2016 3:41 PM

True74yamaha wrote:
jkordzi wrote:
True74yamaha wrote:
Is that primer you used a 2k primer?
Yes - It's mixed 4:1, but added a bit of reduced to make it flow better so I was at about 4:1:0.5.

Make sure to coat that with an epoxy sealer if you sand threw it at all! 2k sealers are not recommended for a bare metal surface. Yes they have bare metal adhesion properties, but most people even paint supply shop people don't realize they obsorbe water like a spung and will rust crack and delaminate horribly bad... Epoxy is the only recommended base/sealer when preping for paint. A 2k primer is used over the top over a properly prepaired epoxy. Also I know you didn't use a lacqure primer but they are about the same as a 2k when it comes to obsorbing water. I don't mean to bash your hard work only stating the truth on misunderstood products. Hope info helps you in the future. Also how and what did you use to prep your surface?

I think what you're saying is generally true, but this particular paint is formulated to be a DTM 2K primer and sealer. It's highly regarded over on autobody101's site. From TAMCO's site:

OUR PRIMERS: Tamco makes the finest quality primers money can buy. Again, we use the best ingredients. Our DTM 2K urethane primers do not use industrial enamels as others do. We use 100% acrylic polyols (same as what we use in our clears). Our resins are DIRECT TO METAL resins. Read the instructions on other primers. They most likely want you to use metal preps BEFORE applying the primer. Why? It’s because they do not use the more expensive direct to metal resins. WE DO! Our HP-5310, can be directly applied over sanded steel, galvanize, and even most aluminums -- try that with the others!

We also use both clay, and talc. Most modern primers to do blend the two powders. We do. This gives you are a little harder to sand primer initially - BUT WILL NOT DRAW SAND SCRATCHES in 90 days! Our primers have NO EQUAL in the market. (65% solids in the HC-5310). Our Primers DO NOT SHRINK!

That's admittedly some pretty high talk, but it seems to be backed up but what I'm seeing in posts on autobody101. Also, there are other DTM primers besides epoxies (e.g., etching primers and lacquer primer which has been sprayed on bare metal for decades). My thinking was that using this product would save me the step of first spraying epoxy and then following up with a high build primer (which this is), not to mention some money. Also, I liked the fact that it contains a rust inhibitor. I talked to the owner who stated they did a test in which they sprayed half of a badly rusted hood with this primer and left it outside for a year and no bleed thru resulted. I obviously don't have any personal long term experience with it, but I can't scrape it off the surface now and it sands very well without clogging. I prepped the surface by sanding down the original paint with 40, 80, and them 180 grit. I then used a wax and grease remover before painting. Time will tell.

Last edited by jkordzi (3/03/2016 7:53 PM)

**Posted by MS** 3/03/2016 9:03 PM

You can certainly get a really nice paint job with single stage paint. Cut and buff and it will look great.

However, a high quality clearcoat will add some protection from bug guts and acid rain and tree sap, etc that just can stain and mess up a single stage paint. I disagree a single stage is easier to repair. I used to think the same thing but learned differently when I painted my fastback with Deltron base/clear.

I am sure your paint will be top notch and the reality is that this type of car is covered in the garage more than it is driven, so just keep it clean and it will last forever.

**Posted by True74yamaha** 3/03/2016 9:16 PM

Usually when they say they are a DTM 2k the catch is that they mean it's a DTM on a 4" circle spot. But for an over all it's never recommended. I'm sure it will be nice though as good base im just stating what all auto paint makers say that you should do. And how they primers are ment to be used.

Last edited by True74yamaha (3/03/2016 9:20 PM)

**Posted by jkordzi** 3/05/2016 11:59 PM

True74yamaha wrote:
Usually when they say they are a DTM 2k the catch is that they mean it's a DTM on a 4" circle spot. But for an over all it's never recommended. I'm sure it will be nice though as good base im just stating what all auto paint makers say that you should do. And how they primers are ment to be used.

Well, this primer is DTM for the entire car. You should go check out their site: http://www.tamcopaint.com/primers-and-sealers.html

**Posted by jerseyjoe** 3/06/2016 7:36 AM

Sounds like you are doing a fine job...I too would spray a coat of sealer prior to final color...a single stage color makes for easy repairs down the road...give the final color enough coats for color sanding....check with Mfgr....

**Posted by True74yamaha** 3/06/2016 11:23 AM

If you don't mind your car fading over time and having to re spray it in a few years, by all means spray a single stage. But really the price for a single stage is actually a lot of the time the same if not very close to that of a BC/CC system. I would get a good base and then follow up with some SPI Clear. I also realize you wanted your paint to not have a real high sheen to it. Since that's the case you can use the SPI flatner in the clear and it will give you a lower sheen clear.

Last edited by True74yamaha (3/06/2016 11:48 AM)

**Posted by jkordzi** 3/06/2016 12:15 PM

True74yamaha wrote:
If you don't mind your car fading over time and having to re spray it in a few years, by all means spray a single stage. But really the price for a single stage is actually a lot of the time the same if not very close to that of a BC/CC system. I would get a good base and then follow up with some SPI Clear. I also realize you wanted your paint to not have a real high sheen to it. Since that's the case you can use the SPI flatner in the clear and it will give you a lower sheen clear.

I agree that there is no significant difference in price. My main issue with BC/CC is that I see CC failures every day - most being factory applied under super controlled conditions. I've also seen more than a few non-factory CC failures. So not being an expert, I'm concluding that either the paint used was fault, or that BC/CC is pretty particular about how it's applied, and my chances of pulling of a lnice looking and ong lasting BC/CC in my garage is less than if I used single stage. My other conclusion after researching how much of an art it is to properly blend BC/CC when repaired is that single stage is a lot easier to repair and touch up. I would like to know more about why you feel that BC/CC won't fade as much as single stage.

**Posted by jerseyjoe** 3/06/2016 1:40 PM

jkordzi wrote:
True74yamaha wrote:
If you don't mind your car fading over time and having to re spray it in a few years, by all means spray a single stage. But really the price for a single stage is actually a lot of the time the same if not very close to that of a BC/CC system. I would get a good base and then follow up with some SPI Clear. I also realize you wanted your paint to not have a real high sheen to it. Since that's the case you can use the SPI flatner in the clear and it will give you a lower sheen clear.
I agree that there is no significant difference in price. My main issue with BC/CC is that I see CC failures every day - most being factory applied under super controlled conditions. I've also seen more than a few non-factory CC failures. So not being an expert, I'm concluding that either the paint used was fault, or that BC/CC is pretty particular about how it's applied, and my chances of pulling of a lnice looking and ong lasting BC/CC in my garage is less than if I used single stage. My other conclusion after researching how much of an art it is to properly blend BC/CC when repaired is that single stage is a lot easier to repair and touch up. I would like to know more about why you feel that BC/CC won't fade as much as single stage.

Clear coats can fade too if not polished occasionally...a single stage or 2 stage paint job will last as long as you maintain it....jj

**Posted by True74yamaha** 3/06/2016 3:00 PM

True they can and will fade but they do hold their gloss longer than a single stage. Plus they have better rock chip prevention then single stage paints. Then again to each their own on what they are looking for and how they want the car or what ever it is to look down the road.

**Posted by BruceB** 3/06/2016 4:50 PM

jkordzi- Don't get sidetracked.

**Posted by MS** 3/14/2016 1:32 PM

Factory clearcoats are designed to fade in a few years so you will buy a new car. You will apply more clear and the car will be maintained better.

Do it the way you want it. Learn as you go. You will have something to be very proud of when you get through.

**Posted by True74yamaha** 3/14/2016 2:12 PM

One great thing about a base coat is that it can be sprayed then if you have any runs or anything get into the base. You can cut them out of it. Then you can spray your clear same goes for the clear you if you get a run or a sag I have a really cool trick using a razor blade and or 800g wet sand paper with some dolphin glaze! It cuts runs out like you wouldn't beleive.