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12/07/2016 7:00 AM  #1


LED or not to LED

When I drive at day I usually switch on my headlights, H4 halogen. I’m using halogen bulbs with extra brightness, like Philips eXtreme and now Osram nightbreaker. These ‘extra’ H4 bulbs last also less. After 5000 miles I needed to replace my H4. I also read at tests that these ‘ extra’ halogen H4 bulb all had a reduced lifetime. So I was looking for another light source. I start using driving at day with my parklights on. But with sunny weather these incandescent bulb 1157 were not so bright that anyone should notice them. After some searching on the internet I found out that there were extra bright 1157 LED’s, to be used as Daytime Running Lights and turning lights. Not all the 1157 LED’s were bright enough and there are also two types. Turning light type 1 is white off, amber on, white on, amber on, etc. Turning light type 2 is amber on, amber off, amber on, etc.  On the Youtube channel of  Mustang Project  I found a very bright 1157 LED, MP 1157 DC XP. This LED has 4 white LED’s at the front and 12 amber LED’s at the sides. So ordered these LED’s at  Mustang Project.







 I was surprised when the LED’s arrived. They didn’t look the same as the one at their website and YouTube channel. I got something I didn’t ordered. Two LED’s on the front, and eight  at the sides instead of twelve.





So I sent an email about the difference between I ordered and what I received. I didn’t got any response and sent again an email to different departments of  Mustang Project.  This was weeks ago, at October 4th 2016. So after sending several emails, I never ever heard anything from  Mustang Project.




The installed Mustang Project LED 1157-DC-XP were not bright as they should be. Their brightness was actually poor, as seen on the photo above.
So installed these MP 1157 LED’s I found out that after driving for 30 minutes, maybe less, the left amber turn LED signal didn’t work anymore. The white DRL stayed on while the signal lights on the dashboard were blinking for turn left. The first moment I noticed this was I stood behind another car and saw my reflection at the back of that car. When I directly turned the signal lever to the right the right amber led was blinking and the white DRL was off. After a few turning, the LED’s amber turning light were refusing now and then. I decided to replace these 1157 LED’s from  Mustang Project  to replace with the ‘old’ incandescent bulbs. These bulbs did their job right all the time. In the mean time I still hadn’t  hear anything from  Mustang Project  about my complaint of the different LED I received.
 
I also ordered also an electronic flasher relay with clicking sound at  Mustang Project.  I installed the flasher relay and noticed the flashing frequency was slow, very slow. The flashing relay had 50 flashings in a minute. This was not between the minimum of 60 and maximum of 120 per minute. The flashing of the relay comes with two clickings per flash. When the turn signal lever was put back in the middle after a turn, there was still one click to hear. This was a little confusing, because I thought the turning relay was still on.


I happen to read an article about a company called  Revology Cars,  (http://revologycars.com/1966-k-gt-convertible/)  who is reproducing new 1966 Mustangs with the best parts available today, but still have the original looks. At the section suppliers there was also a supplier for the lights,  Vintage LEDs 
 (http://revologycars.com/our-suppliers/).



Browsing at their  website I saw some movies about their products and it all looked good. It must be, if their products are being used in ‘brand new’ 1966 Mustangs of $150.000. At Youtube I found also more info about their products, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci4iDodfUDY.  I contacted  Vintage Leds  and Gary was very helpful. So I ordered the Daytime Running Lights, with white LED’s of 500 lumen, and amber turning lights of 400 lumen and a variable speed flasher relay.
These Vintage LED’s are very bright, as DRL and as Turning light. And they are doing their job all the time, no failure of the amber turning light. They are a little bit more expensive, but are doing their job and no trouble of refusing amber turning lights.




Also a nice thing is to know they are waterproof. At one of their movies they put the LED-board in a tank of water and it was still working fine.





Vintage Leds is also selling LED Sequential Turning/Taillights. So I ordered these also. But because there is a lot of demand for  these LED’s,  they were out of stock and will be available in about a few weeks.
I can’t wait.

Ron


 

 

12/07/2016 8:00 AM  #2


Re: LED or not to LED

They look real good and it certainly was an easier method than mine.
I went a different route for my DRL's. These are off the shelf LED strip lights from Autozone tucked in behind the grille that are barely visible when not lit up..

 I also did the rear end with off the shelf trailer tail lamps, three per side.They are sequential with a home made sequencer from <gofastforless.com>
 The high mount third brake light is an LED from an 05 CDC light bar grafted into my Shelby "roll" bar.



Last edited by Rudi (12/07/2016 8:03 AM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

12/07/2016 10:09 AM  #3


Re: LED or not to LED

Just for the record, I'd think twice before believing in the boards being totally waterproof.  Distilled water conducts electricity very poorly, so that could just be a bit of clever salesmanship.  What we get with our cars is road water, mostly.  So it's got plenty of minerals (and maybe salt!) with which to conduct electrons, and corrode wires, etc.  Best keep the controller well away from where it can get splashed!

Awesome writeup on the LEDs, guys!  I might even do my headlights at some point, but given that all new cars are coming with 'em, I think I will keep my bulbs now.  I figure the millennials will ooh and ah over how my 'custom brake lights' and turn signals come on and turn off 'slowly'.  *grin*

Last edited by Technomancer (12/07/2016 10:10 AM)


"Whatever you are, be a good one." - Abraham Lincoln
 

12/08/2016 8:49 AM  #4


Re: LED or not to LED

Rudi,
It looks good your LEDs. The main thing is people will notice you earlier. I like also you third LED in your Shelby roll bar. Makes is all more visible.

The 'waterproof' thing may be a little helpful here in The Netherlands. We have more rain than sun. So it can have some moisture.

Ron

     Thread Starter
 

12/08/2016 9:19 AM  #5


Re: LED or not to LED

I rewired my front turns to be used for daylight running lights.
I also switched  out my front urn signal lights for LED's. Although my 66 came with amber lens for front turns I swapped to clear lens like the 65.
I installed the LED's that are clear for running lights but turn amber when turn signal is switched on! I thought that was kinda slick!
Best of both worlds.
6sally6
PS welcome to the MS forum BTW!


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

12/11/2016 5:45 AM  #6


Re: LED or not to LED

Thanks 6sally6.  I'm member since a few years and my first write up was in 2013. But unfortunately not always time to log in.
Ron

     Thread Starter
 

12/11/2016 12:24 PM  #7


Re: LED or not to LED

I think I had something similar to RonNL going on with my '65.  I had previously installed a pair of Mustang Project Sequential taillights with an electronic flasher.  They worked just fine and were very bright. 

I then bought a pair of nicely made, potted LED front turn/running light units from CJPony.  When installed both blinkers turned on regardless of which direction you selected.  Also the turn indicator on the dash went dim.  I reinstalled the incandescent 1157's and everything was back to normal.

No one could give me an answer nor did they care to look into it.  It was obvious that there was nothing wrong with the car's wiring system.  So I returned the lamps.

I'd still like to use brighter front LEDs but have been afraid to try others.

 

12/15/2016 6:11 AM  #8


Re: LED or not to LED

When I Google on 1157 led problems, there are a lot of hits. LED Parking light are not working or sometimes a flickering, turning lights problems. Are LED's more sensitive for voltage. Would it be better to relais the front parking lights. The taillights are on with the parking lights, also with low and high beam. Will that cause a problem internally. Maybe a leak in the current.

     Thread Starter
 

12/15/2016 2:13 PM  #9


Re: LED or not to LED

I think when you switch over to LED turning lights you have to change the turn relay to something that can handle the lighter electrical load of the LED.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/led-flasher-two-terminal-mustang-1965-1969-bronco-1966-1977/p/HW2811/

 

12/16/2016 5:20 AM  #10


Re: LED or not to LED

After searching the internet for 1157 LED problems I’ve found some info, mainly to do with voltage.

-If only the front or rear lights are replaced with LED’s the old flasher relay still can be used in most cases. When both bulbs are replaced with LED an electronic flasher relay must be used, and in case of hyper flashing.

-Another issue can be the DRL LED will be flickering randomly.  This can be a power issue. A short wiring directly from the LED, via relay, to the battery can solve the problem. A long wire via the light switch on the dashboard can drop the voltage at the end so that it can produce problems for the LED. Incandescent bulbs don’t flicker but will be a little bit less bright, barely visible.

-An alternator what isn’t producing a constant and/or enough voltage.

-A slightly too low voltage.
 

     Thread Starter
 

12/16/2016 1:20 PM  #11


Re: LED or not to LED

I just had a conversation with Gary at Vintage LEDs.  He explained the issue I had when adding front parking light LEDs.  Because the early Mustang instrument cluster only had one turn indicator bulb, it was wired to both lights in the front.  Because of the low draw of the front LED's current would back feed from the one flashing light, through to turn indicator bulb and back down to the opposite side.  He has a special separately grounded LED indicator bulb that prevents that from happening.  He was surprised that neither CJPony or United Pacific knew that.

 

12/16/2016 2:15 PM  #12


Re: LED or not to LED

CJ Pony does sell the LED Instrument lights that do use the single blinker option. It has an LED that has a grounding wire you attach to provide the path needed to work. I got the advice I needed from them when I was sure which to buy.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-instrument-panel-led-bulb-set-1965/p/SD6456GABL/

 

12/16/2016 6:48 PM  #13


Re: LED or not to LED

Mochaman wrote:

CJ Pony does sell the LED Instrument lights that do use the single blinker option. It has an LED that has a grounding wire you attach to provide the path needed to work. I got the advice I needed from them when I was sure which to buy.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-instrument-panel-led-bulb-set-1965/p/SD6456GABL/

Interesting that the agent I dealt with did not know about this.  Neither did the agent at the manufacturer, United Pacific.  The end result was that CJPony begrudgingly accepted my return of the lights.  They were convinced that my wiring had been altered or modified in some manner that was responsible for them not working.

It is also interesting that the one reviewer of the LED dash light kit states that the grounded bulb was wired wrong, with no explanation.
 

 

12/16/2016 11:14 PM  #14


Re: LED or not to LED

I've heard great things about Gary and his product - his handle over at VMF is gtonavy. No complaints over there about anything I've made and quite a few people have put his LED taillights in and have said that they're very bright. Will be interested to see what you think! I have Mustang Project's LED taillights and I think they're dimmer than Gary's though I really have no way of knowing how bright my taillights are as I'm always the one driving.

I put in CJPP's reverse light LEDs back in 2013 and they have actually been superb. They are incredibly bright - even brighter than my headlights, I think. Wonderful for use in very dark locations (alleys, rural areas at night during a new moon, whatever) and make backing up a breeze rather than a stressful situation in which you're constantly getting out to make sure you're not about to hit that fence post you know is lurking out there. Sometimes I use them as spotlights if I'm in a dark area and need light to see (camping). Pretty silly but works way too well to not do it!

I guess that the quality of CJPP's reverse lights must be a lot higher than their parking lamps, though it is also possible that quality has just gone downhill in the past couple years.

 


"Calamity Jane" - Insane road warrior powered by hopes and dreams and piloted by an idiot.
 

12/17/2016 1:02 PM  #15


Re: LED or not to LED

I have Mustang Project's rear sequential tail/turn lites and they are very bright.  It would be nice to see a comparison with Vintage LED's version.  I also have CJPP LED back up lights.  They also are very bright but the mounting sealing system is very weak.  The Vintage ones look like they are a much better seal/mount.

I just ordered a set of Vintage's White/Amber running/turn front lights along with his modified LED turn indicator lamp.  Now I  need to find suitable LED's for the rest of my instrument cluster.  Vintage did not have them.  It will be a pain to remove my cluster as I have to dismount my RallyPac to do it so I might as well convert all the bulbs while I am in there for the turn indicator bulb.


Kelly_H wrote:

I've heard great things about Gary and his product - his handle over at VMF is gtonavy. No complaints over there about anything I've made and quite a few people have put his LED taillights in and have said that they're very bright. Will be interested to see what you think! I have Mustang Project's LED taillights and I think they're dimmer than Gary's though I really have no way of knowing how bright my taillights are as I'm always the one driving.

I put in CJPP's reverse light LEDs back in 2013 and they have actually been superb. They are incredibly bright - even brighter than my headlights, I think. Wonderful for use in very dark locations (alleys, rural areas at night during a new moon, whatever) and make backing up a breeze rather than a stressful situation in which you're constantly getting out to make sure you're not about to hit that fence post you know is lurking out there. Sometimes I use them as spotlights if I'm in a dark area and need light to see (camping). Pretty silly but works way too well to not do it!

I guess that the quality of CJPP's reverse lights must be a lot higher than their parking lamps, though it is also possible that quality has just gone downhill in the past couple years.

 

 

 

12/17/2016 3:41 PM  #16


Re: LED or not to LED

I installed the Scott Drake LED's in my cluster, firm fit and the visibility is great. I read reviews about LED's for clusters and a lot of them failed, fell out the plug.







RallyPac had only two bolts. I had to unscrew the 6 screws of my cluster (1965) and loosen the speedometercable and could replace the bulbs. I used the same LED's for the turnlight indicators.

Last edited by RonNL (12/17/2016 4:04 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

12/17/2016 6:10 PM  #17


Re: LED or not to LED

Looks like you used the clear LED's?  Did you install any in your RallyPac?

RonNL wrote:

I installed the Scott Drake LED's in my cluster, firm fit and the visibility is great. I read reviews about LED's for clusters and a lot of them failed, fell out the plug.







RallyPac had only two bolts. I had to unscrew the 6 screws of my cluster (1965) and loosen the speedometercable and could replace the bulbs. I used the same LED's for the turnlight indicators.

 

 

12/18/2016 3:13 AM  #18


Re: LED or not to LED

boomyal wrote:

Looks like you used the clear LED's?  Did you install any in your RallyPac?
 

 
I had 2 Scott Drake  LED kits, all clear. The RallyPac is still having the incandescent bulbs, they were bright enough for me. I installed 4 leds for the gauges and 2 for the turn signal indicators.

     Thread Starter
 

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