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I apologize for the long post, but maybe this would help others as I have a few questions scattered within. I have a '66 mustang 200ci. I've done a bunch of forum reading, video watching, etc to do a T5 swap and THOUGHT I had it all figured out. The past two months I have spent getting everything ready to bolt in my T5. Got my flywheel resurfaced, new clutch, T5 mount and adapter plate. I had installed everything except the T5 and this past weekend I had planned on finally bolting it in place.
Well, I could not quite get the T5 to sit flush against the adapter plate. I tried wiggling, manhandling and every form of persuasion I could but the last 1/2 inch just wouldn't go. I even tried threading the T5 bolts to hold it in place (that way I wasn't accidentally manhandling it in the wrong direction). After an hour of frustration I decided the best thing was maybe to pull it all loose and mount the bellhousing to the T5, bolt it all up at once to the block.
So....some things I realized when I got my bellhousing removed...
First, the T5 bolts that came with my adapter plate are way too long and bottom out on the bellhousing with about 3/8" to go (note that this is NOT what was preventing the T5 from fully seating against the adapter plate...I just happened upon this when trying to attach the bellhousing). I bought the T5 used and it came mounted to the original T5 bell (which I am not using), gonna see if those bolts will fit instead.
Second, I have a major oil leak now. I carefully inspected the rear main prior to installing the new pilot bearing. No leaks at all. When I loosened the bellhousing, oil began to drip. Most of it was behind the block plate, but some leaked into the bell also (non on the clutch). It doesn't appear to be coming from the lower portion of the rear main seal. Kinda looks like it could be from behind the crank? Could this be related to the engine sagging (see the next issue)? I did use oil resistant sealer on the flywheel bolts. No oil was found on the transmission side of the flywheel.
Third, I noticed that the engine "sags" towards the rear of the car with the transmission removed. The only thing keeping it from sagging too much is the Z bar. Are you guys bracing the engine in place at all when removing the transmission to prevent this? If so, how? If it sags, of course more oil is against the rear main. I would think if the seal is good, it should still hold but perhaps I was "manhandling" the T5 a bit much and broke the seal?
Fourth, I'm still at a loss as to why the T5 won't seat fully against the adapter plate and bell. The new pilot bearing sits flush. against the crank. This brings up a question. Now that I have to inspect/replace the rear main and see what I've done to cause an oil leak, would it be a foolish idea to pull the engine, replace the two-piece seal, mount the T5 and try to put it all back in at once? Or is it easier to mount the transmission with the engine still in place?
I'm feeling pretty defeated and frustrated, thinking I was so close and then having to dismantle everything I've done to get the T5 ready to bolt in.
Any ideas/suggestions/questions/words of wisdom/sarcastic comments that anyone has?
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What year is the T5?
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it's a 1992 T5 from a 4 cyl mustang
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I installed a T5z in my 66 but I had an engine swap so no need for the adapter plate. Man I had to take that thing on and off several times to get it to line up. No life either, just jack stands and a transmission jack. It's mounted but still not broken in.
I would pull everything down, start from scratch step by step. Make sure you got plenty of lights so you can see any interference. You would think it would just slide right in but in my experience that's rarely the case.
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My first thought is the pilot bearing diameter? Otherwise double check input shaft length.
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Have you broke out a measuring tape? Starting with the input shaft, does it fit into the pilot bushing? Is the input shaft too long for the bell housing you are using?
Could something with the throw out bearing be holding it back?
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I'll try to take some measurements when I get back in town (flying to Gary, Indiana today for work). I can tell the input shaft fits into the pilot bearing, I put a small amount of assembly lube in the end of the input shaft and can see where the pilot bearing slid over the end of the input shaft.
I had some issue with the throwout bearing not staying in place, but i was able to move the clutch fork back and forth and the throwout bearing didn't seem to be stuck.
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I used an adapter plate too, but I was installing a T-5 behind a 289 instead of a 200. Have you tried bolting the adapter plate and bellhousing to the T-5 and then installing it all as one unit? That's how I installed mine.
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Michael H. wrote:
I used an adapter plate too, but I was installing a T-5 behind a 289 instead of a 200. Have you tried bolting the adapter plate and bellhousing to the T-5 and then installing it all as one unit? That's how I installed mine.
that's how I decided to try and proceed, and how I discovered the transmission-to-adapter bolts provided with the adapter are too long.
And of course, that's when the oil started leaking.
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jptucker101 wrote:
it's a 1992 T5 from a 4 cyl mustang
You've got some kind of a mismatch because of this I think. The V8 and 4 cylinder T5s are a bit different. Did the adapter say to use a 4 cylinder T5, or specify WC vs. NWC? All the 4 cylinder T5s are NWC. The pilot bearing is different for the 4 cylinder T5 (smaller ID). I would verify that you have the correct pilot bearing. Then bolt up the bellhousing and adapter and measure from the bottom of the pilot bearing bore to the face of the adapter. Then measure the input shaft from the rear face of the trans to the tip of the input shaft. See what those measurements tell you. Something seems off.
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TKOPerformance wrote:
jptucker101 wrote:
it's a 1992 T5 from a 4 cyl mustang
You've got some kind of a mismatch because of this I think. The V8 and 4 cylinder T5s are a bit different. Did the adapter say to use a 4 cylinder T5, or specify WC vs. NWC? All the 4 cylinder T5s are NWC. The pilot bearing is different for the 4 cylinder T5 (smaller ID). I would verify that you have the correct pilot bearing. Then bolt up the bellhousing and adapter and measure from the bottom of the pilot bearing bore to the face of the adapter. Then measure the input shaft from the rear face of the trans to the tip of the input shaft. See what those measurements tell you. Something seems off.
The adapter didn't specify, it just stated T5 adapter. But I'm using the exact procedure and parts from this link:
I'll plan to take some measurements later this week and see what I come up with, though.
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Woes and trouble like this with swaps are normal. When I installed my AOD behind a 250 in my ‘66 I followed an article I found on the internet back in 1998. The article was named something like “Installing an AOD in my Mustang or How I spent my Christmas vacation.” Yep...it took a couple weeks to sort it all out. I got it all together and upon starting, a horrible vibration let me know I installed the wrong flex plate. You’ll get it worked out.
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Another trick that I have used several times when I couldn't get a manual transmission to seat fully is to put the transmission in any gear and rotate the output shaft slightly back and forth... this causes the input shaft to rotate slightly back and forth. Sometimes you'll have splines that aren't quite aligned and this will allow them to slip into place.
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I did the swap on a 66/289 and used the 92 bell housing but I did learn some things that might help you. I bought a complete fastener kit from Rosehill Performance. It saved me a ton of time searching for bolts, etc. Another thing I do, learned this a long time ago, since I don't have a lift and seldom have an assistant I thread two pieces of all thread into the top two trans mount holes in the bell housing. Make them long enough that the input shaft is barely in the bell when the all thread starts in the trans. That way you are not dealing with the weight of the trans while trying to line things up. And finally if on the outside chance that you can't get all of your questions answered here, I'ld be real surprised if you don't, contact Bruce at Modern Driveline. Good luck.
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BillyC wrote:
I did the swap on a 66/289 and used the 92 bell housing but I did learn some things that might help you. I bought a complete fastener kit from Rosehill Performance. It saved me a ton of time searching for bolts, etc. Another thing I do, learned this a long time ago, since I don't have a lift and seldom have an assistant I thread two pieces of all thread into the top two trans mount holes in the bell housing. Make them long enough that the input shaft is barely in the bell when the all thread starts in the trans. That way you are not dealing with the weight of the trans while trying to line things up. And finally if on the outside chance that you can't get all of your questions answered here, I'ld be real surprised if you don't, contact Bruce at Modern Driveline. Good luck.
I've got a couple sets of 6" long bolts with the heads cut off for this purpose. I grind a taper on the outboard end to make getting the trans on them easier, and also cut a slot in the end in case they bind I can use a big flathead screwdriver to back them out.
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when i put my t5 from t4 i checked very well which bell i got and used a spacer .
very helpful was the cluth alignement tools provided with new clutch .
I tilt the engine enough ( fan blade up ) to match trans and bell jet toghter ,no oil leaks from rear on mine.
I used a lifter and try to find the same angle to match the engine ... i was lucky 3rd try was in
When you are close to joint , try to rotate the shaft ( very little ) using the slip yoke on the rear of trans.
Maybe spline are mismatched
hope it helps
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IF you have an engine hoist and can get the car up high enough......put the engine/trans in together. By fitting it all up on the floor/bench before install....you can get everything mated up and working before the hassle of fighting it under the car.
Don't be too "down-on-yourself"...I have more than several "war storys" concerning T-5 install in 66 Mustang.
How bout the time I finally got everything in place and was sliding the T-5 home into the pilot bearing when..........the car rolled off the stands and I was under the car. I slide out "just-in-time" as the car rolled across the driveway and backed into a tree. When the car fell down off of the stands it snapped the input shaft (of the T-5) off FLUSH with the pilot bearing! I had to use a carbine Christmas tree burr to grind the piece out of the pilot bearing! Soooo don't talk to me about having problems installing a T-5!
One of several!!
Hang in there
6sally6
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Did you use the plastic tool that aligns the clutch and pressure plate when you bolt it to the flywheel? If you did make sure that looks the same as transmission input shaft. Like Mike H said put it in gear and turn the input shaft. It should go right in. Maybe the input shaft hit against the oil pan seal and caused it to leak? Hard to believe that would happen but maybe.
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First thing to do is remove the adapter from the bellhousing and test fit it to the front of the transmission. Then test fit the bell to that assembly. Then, slide the clutch disc onto the tranny input shaft to make sure the splines engage properly. If it all fits, and the throwout bearing and release arm fits properly into the tranny/bellhousing assembly, and the throwout bearng slides smoothly on the tranny bearing retainer tube, then you can install the assembly to the engine.
The clutch splines can sometimes be difficult to engage the input shaft. If you have the Ranger diaphragm clutch and used the proper alignment dowel, and you are certain you have the right crank bearing, it should all go together.
When building a custom system such as this, you need to verify prior to final assembly that every mating part will actually mate where it belongs.
Somewhat related:
One trick I have used to make it travel that last 1/2” is to have someone push the clutch pedal to the floor as you push that last 1/2”. But be darned sure the pilot shaft is already in the clutch before you do it or the disc will drop down. That only works if the bell and adapter are already bolted to the block, though. It allows the disc to freely rotate and engage the shaft splines.
The only dimensional difference on a 4 cyl T5 is a smaller input shaft diameter where it fits into the pilot bearing or bushing.
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MS wrote:
Somewhat related:
One trick I have used to make it travel that last 1/2” is to have someone push the clutch pedal to the floor as you push that last 1/2”. But be darned sure the pilot shaft is already in the clutch before you do it or the disc will drop down. That only works if the bell and adapter are already bolted to the block, though. It allows the disc to freely rotate and engage the shaft splines.
When putting the engine and trans (T5) together for the Falcon project we could get them close enough to start the bell housing/block bolts but it didn't want to pull up. My friend got a short piece of all-thread and used that through the cable boss to pull the clutch lever forward just a touch...trans slid right up to the block and he tightened the bolts. I though that was pretty slick thinking. Perfect alignment even with a really good alignment tool is difficult to achieve.
BB
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Any chance your pressure plate is hitting. When I put the T5 in my car I first tried to use a pressure plate (3 finger type I think) that came with the car and it would not let me get the bellhousing all the way tight. I tried a diaphragm style and that worked. I remember I compared them and one was about a half inch thinner than the other.
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Sorry i haven't been able to respond to a lot of the replies on here...finally back from my business trip.
Just a few things...I have a new clutch (diaphragm style) and used the alignment tool when i installed it. I had the T5 in gear to help line up the splines and it seemed to go together. I'm in the process of getting an engine hoist and I'm going to pull the engine to replace the rear main. I hope to have some measurements later this week to see if there is any issues with the input shaft length.
Thanks for all the feedback and replies! I'll report back when I have some more news...in the meantime, I'm gonna go back over all the posts here and double-check everything (and triple-check...)
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