You've got to be real careful here comparing apples and oranges differently than I compared apples and oranges. Yes, that's a bit tongue in cheek, but here's my reasoning:
All TF heads are not created equal, but then neither are all Edelbrocks. My intention was to compare heads of similar characteristics at different price points. For the money you are not going to get a better head than an Edelbrock. They are made in the USA and use high quality components. Edelbrock controls their production process from casting through packaging.
You can't compare the TF heads at the same price point as Edelbrock, because the Edelbrock heads I'd recommend are over $300 cheaper. Specifically I'm comparing the E-Street heads (which are under $1,000 a pair right now at Summit) with the Trick Flow M61 or M58 heads (which are $1,320 a pair). Given these two options I'd definitely save the money and use the Edelbrocks. The M61/M58 TFs are basically the same head they've been building for decades with minor updates. They are designed around the ability to use a 2.02/1.60 valve package on a 4" bore engine with stock pistons. The valve positioning and port design is a dated circle track design. TF can try to spin this however they want, but the facts are out there if you want to research it.
So next, I'm comparing those same M61/M58 TFs to the AFR 165 Renegades. The AFRs are the more expensive heads by about $300. But performance wise there's no comparison, the AFRs are significantly better.
Now, if we are going to level the playing field, a proper comparison are the TF 170 11Rs and the AFR 165 Renegades. In this comparison the AFRs are actually a bit cheaper, and I've yet to see anything pointing that the additional $67 you pay for the TFs is worth anything. The AFRs use better components (valves, etc.) which is part of the reason they are more expensive than the lower priced heads referenced above. Where you need to be careful is that the quality of the TF heads has gone down a bit in recent years after they were acquired by Summit.
Here are the TF 170 11Rs:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-52515301-c00
Here are the AFR 165 Renegades:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afr-1402/overview/
The array of heads available for the SBF is dizzying. The AFRs are more expensive than the entry level aluminum heads from any manufacturer. BUT that's also because at the performance level we are talking about AFR only offers one head where others offer a lot more options. The point of my initial advice was not to directly compare offerings from TF, Edelbrock, and AFR; it was to illustrate the best options at various price points to somone trying to decide how to spend their money on a small cubic inch street engine build. If we level the playing field and compare the best options from all three companies what you'll find is that the AFRs still win, because they are the still best head and are actually also the cheapest.
Everyone is going to have their preference. Engine builders tend to stick with what they know. If they are selling engines and customers are happy there really isn't much pressure to innovate. When you are building for volume and watching your bottom line, like in any other business, you are going to look at the head which has the best combination of cost, reliability, and performance. This can be a different set of criteria from one of us looking to build one engine one time. My preference is for the best product available for the intended application. The difference in cost would have to be extreme for me to consider it a primary factor in my decision making. I'm not going to leave HP on the table, so long as I'm not moving outside my build criteria. I also exhaustively research every component in an engine I build. I've never bought a crate engine because I've never been able to find one with all the parts in it I want. There's always something that's different and I know the reason is that the builder is cutting cost because he gets a better deal on the parts he's using compared to the ones I'd use. In the real world is it a noticeable difference on the street? I can't say. I know I've always been happy with what I've built, and I don't build enough engines to say "on this one I'll use a different set of heads". I can't claim a ton of direct experience, but I can claim that its unlikely anyone researches stuff as well or as much as I do. Its the German perfectionist in me, and sharing that knowledge is why my posts tend to be so darn long.
Last edited by TKOPerformance (12/30/2019 6:52 AM)
Offline
Gaba wrote:
afr’s are 1700
Thread Starter
