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12/28/2019 7:29 PM  #1


Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

Ive been helping my friend out doing a Borgeson Steering Conversion. I noticed before we started the disassembly that the car has unequal tie rods about 1 full inch difference side to side. 14 1/4 left and 13 1/4 right. I happen to have a stock 65 mustang centerlink and tie rods to compare to from my car,  after holding up the stock manual centerlink in place the right side isnt right. Im thinking maybe I need to check casting numbers on the spindle and see if maybe the car has an odd set.

 

12/29/2019 6:37 AM  #2


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

Its more likely that whoever last did the alignment didn't really know or care about what they were doing.  I've yet to see the Mustang steering setup that benefited from unequal length tie rods.  In fact what it means is that the centerlink wasn't centered in the car.  You can have this and still get toe right.  The issue will be the wheel and the fact that the steering will have more turns to lock on one side than the other, and will seem to steer faster on way.  The wheel can be recentered by popping it off and reinstalling it centered.  This gives the illusion that things are right, but they are not.

My advice would be to split the difference with the tie rods and set them both at 13-3/4 to start.  This will center the centerlink.  Then, when adjusting toe simply adjust both sides equally when making changes.

I'll add that ditching the factory sleeves for something like these makes adjusting toe a lot easier:

https://www.mustangsplus.com/1965-1966-Mustang-Manual-Steering-Tubular-Adjusting-Sleeves.html

The two other things of which to be aware on a Borgeson swap are that you really need to do a Shelby/Arning drop to get enough positive caster in the suspension.  Without it you'll chase your tail with shims trying to get to 3.5 degrees positive while maintaining acceptable camber.  You need the positive caster to have proper return to center.  I'd also suggest adjustable strut rods like these to make adjustments easier:

https://www.mustangsplus.com/1965-1966-Adjustable-Caster-Rod-1st-Gen.html

The second thing is that IME the Borgeson kits come with the assist turned all the way up.  This makes the steering twitchy.  I would advise the pressure adjustment kit from Borgeson to reduce the assist pressure to 1,000-900psi.  This makes for smooth steering that doesn't feel like it makes the car dart left or right the instant the wheel is touched.  Here's a link to that kit:

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/power-steering-pump-pressure-regulator-kits?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=borgeson

 

12/29/2019 11:39 AM  #3


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

Awesome that gives me some info to go on thank you TKO ill report back.

     Thread Starter
 

12/29/2019 2:07 PM  #4


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

When I swap  Mine I used The rod's for a standard  Manual steering  right and left that centered my link


66 PonySilverBlue-289/gt40/roller/650cfm/ram air-T-5-cable-w4way.disc/4-245x50x16"
 

12/29/2019 3:08 PM  #5


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

Like TKO said, somewhere in there...
justinstall the box and turn steering wheel full left, then full right, then go back 1/2 way to center. Do not move the steering wheel from that position. Install center link and adjust tie rods so both wheels point straight ahead. Reposition steering wheel if necessary so it is straight. Then get an alignment.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/29/2019 8:32 PM  #6


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

About Borgeson steering......when running the engine at idle and moving the car, like backing out of the garage or Irving into a parking spot there is not enough power steering and almost worse than manual steering. Idle RPM is around 750.  Any ideas?


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

12/29/2019 8:50 PM  #7


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

HudginJ3 wrote:

About Borgeson steering......when running the engine at idle and moving the car, like backing out of the garage or Irving into a parking spot there is not enough power steering and almost worse than manual steering. Idle RPM is around 750. Any ideas?

Do you have a way you can measure the output pressure of the pump?

 

12/30/2019 5:50 AM  #8


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

HudginJ3 wrote:

About Borgeson steering......when running the engine at idle and moving the car, like backing out of the garage or Irving into a parking spot there is not enough power steering and almost worse than manual steering. Idle RPM is around 750. Any ideas?

Pull the pressure relief valve out of the rear of the pump (assuming you are using the Saginaw pump Borgeson supplies).  See how many shims are installed in the valve.  If you need more assist just remove a shim or two.  The kit I listed above has shims and the tool you need to change them.  Instructions in the kit will tell you how many shims equal what psi of output pressure. 

 

12/30/2019 8:50 PM  #9


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

No, I kept the original Ford pump. I even overhauled it. It works better than it did but not as good as I would like. When I rev up the engine it works for a little while but then seems to loose pressure again. The ford pump has the pressure relief valve internally. I didn't mess with it so I guess I need to.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

12/31/2019 10:17 AM  #10


Re: Helping out a friend with their 65 mustang 289 coupe TIE ROD advise

Maybe overdrive the pump with a larger pulley? I know underdriving it will decrease pressure.
Are you accidently underdriving it with incorrect pulleys?
Stangerssite, list causes of low pressure for the Thompson pump.
http://www.stangerssite.com/HowItWorksFordPump.html
And more info than you could ever need.
http://www.fordification.com/tech/PDF/FordPSpump-diagnosis.pdf

Last edited by 50vert (12/31/2019 10:46 AM)


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