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  •  » Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

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    3/15/2020 7:04 PM  #1

    mustang stu
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    Registered: 4/15/2016
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    Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    I put the 69 351w into the 67 I put the engine in with the clutch in and bell housing on with the starter. I put 2 dial pins
    on the bottom 2 bolt holes on the bell housing. Using a motorcycle jack for the 4 speed top loader and a small
    jack on the bottom of the bell housing, I was able to get the transmission all the way in but the last 1/2". I grabbed
    the tail shaft wiggled it left to right up and down and in a circle motion. I could not get it to go in any more. I pulled
    it apart ,checked the clutch and pilot bearing with a dummy shaft ever thing looks good. I try it again same thing 
    all most in 1/2" gap between the bell housing and transmission I can put the bolts in and pull it in (maybe?) but I don't
    want to do that as I might really screw something up. They all way's slide all the way in, then your home. I ended up
    pulling the bell housing and clutch off. Just for the heck of it I line the trans up, (the input shaft with the pilot bearing) the input shaft goes in about 1/2" no more I take the back of the tail shaft wiggling it all around I can't
    get the input input shaft to go into the pilot bearing any more. I pump grease into the crankshaft knock in a socket
    and remove the pilot bearing,clean it and put it on the input shaft it goes right on. The 351w had an automatic 
    behind it would this make any difference? I'm at a loss can sure use some HELP.  mustang stu
     

     

    3/15/2020 7:12 PM  #2

    RV6
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    From: Pine Junction, CO
    Registered: 3/01/2016
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    With the dowels installed and a few bolts too, you might want to attach the clutch linkage and smash the clutch pedal down while jiggling the tranny forward. I have found that using plastic dummy shafts are a hit or miss scenario and do not always get things in perfect alignment. 
    I have also found that pilot bushings are easier to align than bearings. I prefer bearings. 

    Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
     

    3/15/2020 7:30 PM  #3

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    RV6 wrote:

    With the dowels installed and a few bolts too, you might want to attach the clutch linkage and smash the clutch pedal down while jiggling the tranny forward. I have found that using plastic dummy shafts are a hit or miss scenario and do not always get things in perfect alignment. 
    I have also found that pilot bushings are easier to align than bearings. I prefer bearings. 

    X2 on this.  If you are like 3/4-1/2" away and it won't fully seat the issue is its hung up on the release bearing. 

     

    3/15/2020 7:44 PM  #4

    mustang stu
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    My mistake I said pilot bearing in my post, I should have said pilot bushing. I took the bushing out of my 289
    and put it in freezer over night. Yes I'm using a plastic shaft to line thing's up. I will try to hook up clutch and get 
    someone to push the pedal. I had to stop and get away from the car for awhile. Will give it a shot tomorrow.
    Thanks for the tips. Any body else please chime in!      mustang stu

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/15/2020 8:01 PM  #5

    RV6
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    From: Pine Junction, CO
    Registered: 3/01/2016
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    mustang stu wrote:

    My mistake I said pilot bearing in my post, I should have said pilot bushing. I took the bushing out of my 289
    and put it in freezer over night. Yes I'm using a plastic shaft to line thing's up. I will try to hook up clutch and get 
    someone to push the pedal. I had to stop and get away from the car for awhile. Will give it a shot tomorrow.
    Thanks for the tips. Any body else please chime in!      mustang stu

    I totally understanding stop and leave tactics. Otherwise thing that don't need destroying happen to get destroyed. Bearings seem to be harder to line up but the clutch press routine works on both. 
    Try it, if it don't work, step back and drink a beer. The next day try it again. Your will succeed!
     

    Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
     

    3/15/2020 10:52 PM  #6

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
    Registered: 7/14/2016
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    Was there grease already in the crank?
    If so you may have been trying to compress the grease in the hole.

    X2 on connecting the clutch

    I also used longer bolts to support transmission during install as guide pins.
    Then install correct ones after it’s seated correctly.

     

    3/16/2020 7:11 AM  #7

    Bolted to Floor
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    I agree with Dan about the grease.

    Sounds like you did all you could to move the input shaft around to have it line up. Did you try to turn the input shaft to make sure the splines were inline with the clutch disc?

    Did you happen to check the depth of the through the pilot bushing into the back of the crank? Do you have more than a 1/2"?

    Have you verified the input shaft and the depth of the bell housing are a match? Not sure about small block stuff, but FE car and truck bell housings are 7/16" different in depth. 

     

    John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     

    3/16/2020 8:20 AM  #8

    ps77sb
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    From: Crosby Texas
    Registered: 5/25/2013
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

     I went thru the same scenario. I disassembled everything down to just the pilot bushing and the T/L 4sp. No clutch or bell housing. Still would not go in. The pilot shaft had surface rust on the end that inserted into the pilot bushing.  Some emery cloth solved the problem.

     

    3/16/2020 11:25 AM  #9

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,279

    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    Depressing the clutch pedal after the tranny input shaft is partially engaging the pilot bearing usually works for me.

    My brand new TKO600 had the same problem recently. I pulled it in with the bolts, but made darn sure it was never in a bind. Tighten the bolts 1/2 turn, then wiggle tailshaft. It finally went in.  Not your typically recommended method, but if done with care and an appreciation of the problems it can cause, it works.

    Be sure, as others suggested, there is no grease in the back of the crank.

    Also might try rotating the crank with a 15/16” socket on the balancer bolt.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    3/16/2020 12:23 PM  #10

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    MS wrote:

    Depressing the clutch pedal after the tranny input shaft is partially engaging the pilot bearing usually works for me.

    My brand new TKO600 had the same problem recently. I pulled it in with the bolts, but made darn sure it was never in a bind. Tighten the bolts 1/2 turn, then wiggle tailshaft. It finally went in. Not your typically recommended method, but if done with care and an appreciation of the problems it can cause, it works.

    Be sure, as others suggested, there is no grease in the back of the crank.

    Also might try rotating the crank with a 15/16” socket on the balancer bolt.



     ....In the direction of rotation?
     

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    3/16/2020 6:15 PM  #11

    mustang stu
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    Better day today, I cleaned the area,fresh work clothes. I have a couple of plastic dummy shafts,I found
    one that fit the pilot bushing tighter than the one I had used.I bought a luk clutch kit it must have had 6
    bushings with it.I tried 2 different ones no go,I pulled the one out of the 289 and put it in the freezer over
    night (only 4k miles on that one)The bell housing and trans were both on my 289 as was the bushing. Got
    the trans within 3/8" of the bell housing,put the top bolts in tightened the 2 top bolts a little, wiggled the tail
    shaft ,now 1/4" did it again now 1/8" pulled it right in. I did scott brite the input shaft (bushing area). I put about 10 or so clutchs in never had that much trouble. I just wanted to say THANKS TO EVERYONE
    FOR THE HELP AND GOOD TIPS. It makes a difference,some times, I blame myself, it was good to hear
    other guy's run into these issues too. It made me want to continue the next day, getting close to engine
    break in time.Once again THANKS mustang stu

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/16/2020 6:26 PM  #12

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,867

    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    Come to the Bash at the Beach and we'll buy you a ..............drank of some sort.
    6sally6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    3/16/2020 7:42 PM  #13

    Bolted to Floor
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    From: Houston, Texas
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Pilot bearing issues 351w (input shaft won't go all the way in)

    Glad to hear it went together.

    John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     

     

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