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3/30/2020 9:23 AM  #1


Carburetor Size

I have a friend bringing his 66 over for a Carburetor swap, He is presently running an old leaky Holley 600.

The motor is a roller 5.0 with aluminum heads  and a Ford E-cam, headers and good exhaust. 5-speed car, never sees over 6000 RPM's, the calculations say a 500 CFM carb would be fine. Is a new 600 CFM carb going to be too much? He is looking at the Summit carb that looks like a cross between the Autolite 4100 and the Holley 4010.  It comes in a 500 & 600.

 

 

3/30/2020 9:25 AM  #2


Re: Carburetor Size

600.....won't be too big!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/30/2020 9:39 AM  #3


Re: Carburetor Size

That Summit Street and Strip would be my choice as well, either size would work.
 The Autolite 4100 is arguably one of the best atomisers ever made, the Summit offering seems to have the upgrades that the late Jon Enyeart used to do to them.
 To me looks are important and the Carter carbs just don't cut it on a Ford, might be OK if you never open your hood in public!


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/30/2020 3:52 PM  #4


Re: Carburetor Size

Edelbrock 500cfm. Runs right out of the box.  You may need to fatten it up a tiny bit of the power side. 1403 is the carb I run and get the tuning kit for it.

I have mine jetted down two steps on cruise and power.  But that's for my 289 with stock cam and heads, done at 5,000RPM.  My guess would be out of the box calibration will be close, maybe lean the cruise 1 step.  Then I'd try power down one step and up one step vs. out of the box.  Super easy to work on, change rods/jets in about 10 minutes without needing to drain the gas out of it.  Much, much better than the stock Autolite I couldn't get tuning parts for (it was NOT a 4100 though, 4300 maybe, can't remember, anyway its on a shelf with the factory intake, which is where those parts belong).

Be sure to get your timing dialed in too.  All the carb magic in the world isn't going to fix a bad timing curve, and it will just never make the power it should. 

 

3/30/2020 4:05 PM  #5


Re: Carburetor Size

TKOPerformance wrote:

Edelbrock 500cfm. Runs right out of the box.  You may need to fatten it up a tiny bit of the power side. 1403 is the carb I run and get the tuning kit for it.

I have mine jetted down two steps on cruise and power.  But that's for my 289 with stock cam and heads, done at 5,000RPM.  My guess would be out of the box calibration will be close, maybe lean the cruise 1 step.  Then I'd try power down one step and up one step vs. out of the box.  Super easy to work on, change rods/jets in about 10 minutes without needing to drain the gas out of it.  Much, much better than the stock Autolite I couldn't get tuning parts for (it was NOT a 4100 though, 4300 maybe, can't remember, anyway its on a shelf with the factory intake, which is where those parts belong).

Be sure to get your timing dialed in too.  All the carb magic in the world isn't going to fix a bad timing curve, and it will just never make the power it should. 

I have a hard time believing anyone would suggest a heat soaking Edelbrock to another Mustang enthusiast. They also look totally wrong under the hood of a classic mustang.

Last edited by RV6 (3/30/2020 4:05 PM)


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

3/30/2020 4:42 PM  #6


Re: Carburetor Size

Never had a single issue with heat soak with any Edelbrock.  Stock Autolite did that to me once, but that's one time in like 20 years, so I can't really fault it.  Honestly I don't care what a carb looks like; I care how it works.  Holleys look great, but they are a PITA to tune and often just never seem to be able to be tuned spot on, just close.  An Edelbrock looks a lot like a Carter, and Carters were used on plenty of performance cars, just not '60s era Fords. 

 

3/30/2020 4:49 PM  #7


Re: Carburetor Size

RV6 wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Edelbrock 500cfm. Runs right out of the box.  You may need to fatten it up a tiny bit of the power side. 1403 is the carb I run and get the tuning kit for it.

I have mine jetted down two steps on cruise and power.  But that's for my 289 with stock cam and heads, done at 5,000RPM.  My guess would be out of the box calibration will be close, maybe lean the cruise 1 step.  Then I'd try power down one step and up one step vs. out of the box.  Super easy to work on, change rods/jets in about 10 minutes without needing to drain the gas out of it.  Much, much better than the stock Autolite I couldn't get tuning parts for (it was NOT a 4100 though, 4300 maybe, can't remember, anyway its on a shelf with the factory intake, which is where those parts belong).

Be sure to get your timing dialed in too.  All the carb magic in the world isn't going to fix a bad timing curve, and it will just never make the power it should. 

I have a hard time believing anyone would suggest a heat soaking Edelbrock to another Mustang enthusiast. They also look totally wrong under the hood of a classic mustang.

Gary, don't you have AC system to install....

 

3/30/2020 5:21 PM  #8


Re: Carburetor Size

Holley 600 carb gaskets are cheap and effective.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/30/2020 6:35 PM  #9


Re: Carburetor Size

I had 1 Holley that never-ever could be made to work. It was an Advenger 570. It hangs on my wall of shame after spending too many $ on it. I just can't get by the looks of an Edelbrock for some reason. 4100 from the old days were the most dependable but never could beat a fine tuned Holley.

 

3/31/2020 10:26 AM  #10


Re: Carburetor Size

I installed a Summit Racing Carburetor 600cfm last fall. It was on a 302 with a 5 speed.  I have to say its one of the best carburetors that I've installed.  Ran really nice right out of the box.  I did a few minor adjustments and I was good to go.
 

 

3/31/2020 11:58 AM  #11


Re: Carburetor Size

hello , i have try holley 600 and was a disaster for a stock 289.  Too big for the needs and a lots of parts to change if want to use it . 
Went on edel 500 with tuning kit and is much better . Once understand and follow charts comes super easy find the tuning .  As sayd a perfect timing is  1st step . 
Summit carb leaves me some doubt on quality .

Bye 

 

3/31/2020 11:58 AM  #12


Re: Carburetor Size

RV6 wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Edelbrock 500cfm. Runs right out of the box.  You may need to fatten it up a tiny bit of the power side. 1403 is the carb I run and get the tuning kit for it.

I have mine jetted down two steps on cruise and power.  But that's for my 289 with stock cam and heads, done at 5,000RPM.  My guess would be out of the box calibration will be close, maybe lean the cruise 1 step.  Then I'd try power down one step and up one step vs. out of the box.  Super easy to work on, change rods/jets in about 10 minutes without needing to drain the gas out of it.  Much, much better than the stock Autolite I couldn't get tuning parts for (it was NOT a 4100 though, 4300 maybe, can't remember, anyway its on a shelf with the factory intake, which is where those parts belong).

Be sure to get your timing dialed in too.  All the carb magic in the world isn't going to fix a bad timing curve, and it will just never make the power it should. 

I have a hard time believing anyone would suggest a heat soaking Edelbrock to another Mustang enthusiast. They also look totally wrong under the hood of a classic mustang.

I have to disagree. My Edelbrock 1406 looks fine and I have never experienced problems with heat soaking or vapor lock with it on my 351W. I do have a 1" phenolic spacer under it, so I'm sure that helps insulate the carb. I had an 84 F-150 that had an Holley 4180 that was a leaky, hard to tune PITA that would cause me heartache when I had to do a state mandated emissions test to renew the license. The Edelbrock is a dream compared to that carb.
 


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

3/31/2020 2:31 PM  #13


Re: Carburetor Size

Steve69 wrote:

I installed a Summit Racing Carburetor 600cfm last fall. It was on a 302 with a 5 speed.  I have to say its one of the best carburetors that I've installed.  Ran really nice right out of the box.  I did a few minor adjustments and I was good to go.
 

I have the 500 cfm version of the Summit Carb on my 289. While it ran OK it stumbled large time taking off from the light and was hard to start. Going through the carb I found the accelerator pump was not even close to being adjusted correctly and the jets were not even seated finger tight. So much for quality control. The Summit Carb now works great but I have not been able to put many miles on it 

The Summit MO8500VS looks good on top of the engine. 


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

3/31/2020 2:58 PM  #14


Re: Carburetor Size

RV6 wrote:

Steve69 wrote:

I installed a Summit Racing Carburetor 600cfm last fall. It was on a 302 with a 5 speed.  I have to say its one of the best carburetors that I've installed.  Ran really nice right out of the box.  I did a few minor adjustments and I was good to go.
 

I have the 500 cfm version of the Summit Carb on my 289. While it ran OK it stumbled large time taking off from the light and was hard to start. Going through the carb I found the accelerator pump was not even close to being adjusted correctly and the jets were not even seated finger tight. So much for quality control. The Summit Carb now works great but I have not been able to put many miles on it 



The Summit MO8500VS looks good on top of the engine. 

     Looks Great!   Mine had no stumble.  When I hit the floor it just goes.   We'll see how the summer goes and If Id recommend it after.  Though I have a feeling most of the car show's will be cancelled with the Covid19.  Ill just have to cruise around and see how it does.
 

 

3/31/2020 3:21 PM  #15


Re: Carburetor Size

Ron68 wrote:

RV6 wrote:

[quote.

I have to disagree. My Edelbrock 1406 looks fine and I have never experienced problems with heat soaking or vapor lock with it on my 351W. I do have a 1" phenolic spacer under it, so I'm sure that helps insulate the carb. I had an 84 F-150 that had an Holley 4180 that was a leaky, hard to tune PITA that would cause me heartache when I had to do a state mandated emissions test to renew the license. The Edelbrock is a dream compared to that carb.
 

 
Of course you don't have vapor lock issues Ron68........it never gets above 65 degrees there!!!
6s6

Last edited by 6sally6 (3/31/2020 3:22 PM)


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/31/2020 3:31 PM  #16


Re: Carburetor Size

6sally6 wrote:

Ron68 wrote:

RV6 wrote:

[quote.

I have to disagree. My Edelbrock 1406 looks fine and I have never experienced problems with heat soaking or vapor lock with it on my 351W. I do have a 1" phenolic spacer under it, so I'm sure that helps insulate the carb. I had an 84 F-150 that had an Holley 4180 that was a leaky, hard to tune PITA that would cause me heartache when I had to do a state mandated emissions test to renew the license. The Edelbrock is a dream compared to that carb.
 

 
Of course you don't have vapor lock issues Ron68........it never gets above 65 degrees there!!!
6s6

Hey Ron68..I've been doing some internet investigation and.....the 1406 is 'tuned' as an emissions-friendly carb whereas the 1405 (SAME carb only comes with a manual choke) is 'tuned' as a performance carb from Edelbrock.
The difference is the 1405 comes with .100 main jets(1428) & 070 X 047 (1451) metering rods and try the orange step down spring to tune it.  According to the tune up chart the 1405 is a couple steps leaner than the 1406.
Just FYI
6s6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

4/01/2020 5:18 AM  #17


Re: Carburetor Size

Gets plenty hot here in the summers.  I've run my car on days where the heat index was north of 100, actual outside temp was 98 with high humidity.  Still no issues with heat soak/vapor lock.

The 1403 I run is a 500cfm with electric choke and mechanical secondaries.  I really prefer mechanical secondaries, especially on a car with a manual transmission.  Keeps the cost lower too over the AVS series carbs. 

Last edited by TKOPerformance (4/01/2020 5:18 AM)

 

4/01/2020 4:32 PM  #18


Re: Carburetor Size

I've run both Edlebrock band Summit on my 66 Mustang. The Edlebrock is a 1405 600 which I bought used. The Seller highly recommend rebuilding it as it had been in his yard shed for a couple years. He took it off a Chevy truck he bought for a Holley. I ignored his advice and just bolted it on after checking the float bowls for junk. They were pretty clean. The carb ran great returning 17 mpg while beating on the car on a couple autocrossing events. Yes I did have some hard start after running. However after upgrading from points to Duraspark fixed that.

I had a 600 cfm Summit which I got a good deal on. Brand new in box never used. After sitting in a box brand new for many years I decided to try it. It's a very smooth good running carburator. It's a little apples to oranges comparing it to the Edelbrock since it was used and I never did anything to it. I haven't had time to really dial in the Summit since it was last fall before putting the car away. So comparing them with noted limitations the Summit seems a little smoother then the Edelbrock but the Edelbrock gave me the impression of running better on the upper end. The Summit seems like it falls off. Again spending time dialing in the Summit, maybe richer secondary jetting or vacuum spring may take care of that. Rebuilding the Edelbrock will probably make it drive smoother although it drove really well.

My summery as a Edelbrock fan, either or. Both are very good. It's six of one, half a dozen of another. You won't go wrong with either.

Last edited by Huskinhano (4/01/2020 4:34 PM)


I'm not a complete idiot.....pieces are missing. Tom
 

4/01/2020 5:12 PM  #19


Re: Carburetor Size

6sally6 wrote:

6sally6 wrote:

Ron68 wrote:

I have to disagree. My Edelbrock 1406 looks fine and I have never experienced problems with heat soaking or vapor lock with it on my 351W. I do have a 1" phenolic spacer under it, so I'm sure that helps insulate the carb. I had an 84 F-150 that had an Holley 4180 that was a leaky, hard to tune PITA that would cause me heartache when I had to do a state mandated emissions test to renew the license. The Edelbrock is a dream compared to that carb.
 

 
Of course you don't have vapor lock issues Ron68........it never gets above 65 degrees there!!!
6s6

Hey Ron68..I've been doing some internet investigation and.....the 1406 is 'tuned' as an emissions-friendly carb whereas the 1405 (SAME carb only comes with a manual choke) is 'tuned' as a performance carb from Edelbrock.
The difference is the 1405 comes with .100 main jets(1428) & 070 X 047 (1451) metering rods and try the orange step down spring to tune it. According to the tune up chart the 1405 is a couple steps leaner than the 1406.
Just FYI
6s6
 

I have to qualify my previous statement. I did have a couple of problems with the 1406. Early on, I had an off idle stumble which I fixed by changing out the step up springs that were installed to stiffer ones (2 sizes up did the trick). The other problem that I had was that it doesn't like autocross racing. Accelerating straight ahead, then hard braking and an immediate right turn into a left hand circling turn caused the engine to stall - twice at the same spot on the course. Hard to shift into neutral, continue in the turn and restart the engine then shift back into drive is bad for your total time on the course. After I installed the 5.0L heads on the engine, and was having issues with it falling on it's nose at 4500 rpm, I took it into have it checked out on a dyno. Did two pulls and we determined that the valves were floating. The tech also noted that I was starting to go lean at the higher rpms before it stumbled. I installed heavier valve springs and the problem went away - but I haven't yet put it back on the dyno to see about that lean condition at the top end. Maybe now that I am retired - and after it is safe to leave my house - I can try again and get that lean condition dialed in. And yes - we do get over 65 up here! It's not unheard of to get up into the 70's up here!
 


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

4/01/2020 5:49 PM  #20


Re: Carburetor Size

Most carbs are going to give you trouble when you start jossling them all around.  Holleys are literally terrible at anything other than straight line performance.  Guys cram the float bowl with foam and all sorts of stuff trying to get them to work off road.  The Edelbrocks, Carters, and Q-Jets are just better at it.  That said, if you're serious about off roading its time to go to EFI.  The engine will run upside down or on its side (yes, I know this from experience).  Autocross is like off roading's infant brother.

 

4/07/2020 5:06 AM  #21


Re: Carburetor Size

The poor old Autolite 4100 gets a bit a bad wrap... I have one on my car. Jon Earnhardt rebuilt it for me. I had issues with the choke for a number of years, but recently converted the choke to electric and there hasn't been any further issues. My Autolite runs great. Very smooth cruiser and pretty decent on the mpg too. When I plant the foot, I can feel the secondaries open up and away she goes. With Pony Carbs gone, I'm not sure what I will do in the following years when the Autolite needs a service or replacement parts. I'm seriously considering one of those electronic carburetors (aka fuel injection for old classics) maybe... But for now, I'm enjoying the Autolite 4100 on my car.

Last edited by Stevo (4/07/2020 5:08 AM)


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

4/07/2020 7:53 AM  #22


Re: Carburetor Size

Stevo wrote:

The poor old Autolite 4100 gets a bit a bad wrap... I have one on my car. Jon Earnhardt rebuilt it for me. I had issues with the choke for a number of years, but recently converted the choke to electric and there hasn't been any further issues. My Autolite runs great. Very smooth cruiser and pretty decent on the mpg too. When I plant the foot, I can feel the secondaries open up and away she goes. With Pony Carbs gone, I'm not sure what I will do in the following years when the Autolite needs a service or replacement parts. I'm seriously considering one of those electronic carburetors (aka fuel injection for old classics) maybe... But for now, I'm enjoying the Autolite 4100 on my car.

Bookmark for future reference, mikes carburetor supplies. He has the parts, knowledge and may still have rebuild service for the 4100.

 

Board footera


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