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5/10/2020 4:25 PM  #1


Arnning drop camber adjustment

I did the Shelby/Arning drop on my 70 Mustang and took it to the alignment shop. MS pointed out that the camber looked like it was set positive degrees instead of negative as specified. When I checked it, was set to factory specs so I am in the process of learning how to do it myself. Trying to set the camber is off about 1.7 degrees but the adjustment is at the max. All of the front suspension parts are relatively new except for the springs. The lower control arms and camber cams are the newest parts. My question is, are there different camber cams, or what is the fix to bring it into spec per the Arnnng drop?


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

5/10/2020 8:12 PM  #2


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

You have the LCA moved outwards as far as it will go and you still have positive camber?

 

5/10/2020 8:34 PM  #3


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Yes, that is correct.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/11/2020 6:26 AM  #4


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

What springs and isolators are in the car?  If the spring/isolator package is too tall you will have exactly what you describe. 

 

5/11/2020 8:00 AM  #5


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

The springs are still original factory springs that came with the car. (The paint daubs are still visible)  The upper isolators are factory type repops. The upper control arm shafts have been replaced by the Moog shaft improvement kit. Not brand new but not old enough to be worn out. The spring perches are the same age with those red rubber bushings I don't remember the name of. The lower isolators on the perches is that red rubber stuff also.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/11/2020 8:23 AM  #6


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Just to clarify, the top of the tires are tilted outward, correct?

 

5/11/2020 9:59 AM  #7


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

And to confirm there are no shims on the upper arm?


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

5/11/2020 10:14 AM  #8


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment





You can tell by my jibber jabber that I am a little confused about positive and negative camber. When the car is on the ground tops of the tire is towards the engine when it is in the air is toward the outside of the fender.  It moves as much as 3° between the ground and jacking it up on the passenger side the driver side moves about 3/10 of a degree. I would like to get it within Daze’s specs. He does not specify what the passenger side camber should be. I’m not at home so it can’t be more specific on the settings I’m talking about.

There are no shims but I believe that would resolve my problem.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/11/2020 11:04 AM  #9


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Positive camber is when the tire is tiled away from the center of the car.  Negative is the opposite.  Loaded vs. unloaded the camber is going to be different because the suspension changes camber as it cycles.  You cannot set camber with the weight off the tires.  After changes you need to run the car around the block to settle the suspension if you have to put it in the air and unload the suspension to make adjustments. 

That said, your camber adjuster is in the right position for maximum negative camber.

How are you reading camber? 

 

5/11/2020 12:56 PM  #10


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

If the top of the tire is tilted inward towards the engine, you can add 1/8” shims to the upper control arm bolts to move it outward and within the adjustment limits of the LCA cams.

As TKO stated, the front end must be fully settled, not jacked up, in order to measure camber.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/11/2020 1:12 PM  #11


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

You can definitely add shims, but I'm wondering why its so far off.  Did UCA or LCA length change over early model production?  I'm wondering if there's a part mismatch going on here. 

 

5/11/2020 1:43 PM  #12


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

When the car is on the ground after driving it up and down the street measuring the camber with a Digital Protractor Pro 360 placed on the hub cap of the wheel with the level vertical it reads -88.8 degrees. According to Daze specs it needs to be adjusted to -.5 to 0 degrees. So I need to move it -1.2 degrees. In the air up on jacks it reads 87.9 degrees so I need to move it to 86.7 degrees to get to zero. The adjuster cam is at max adjustment. Just to clarify the hub cap is square, I checked it but to be sure I put the valve stem at the top before it take the reading. I do drive it up and down the street before I take the reading before I jack it up again.    Thanks for the input.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/11/2020 6:34 PM  #13


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

HudginJ3 wrote:



You can tell by my jibber jabber that I am a little confused about positive and negative camber. When the car is on the ground tops of the tire is towards the engine...

Per your pic,  your lower control arm eccentric is at maximum negative camber. It needs to be rotated to bring the lower ball joint inward to get caster at 0°.

There are no shims but I believe that would resolve my problem.

  That will work as MS mentioned, but if you use shims on the upper arm you might experience tire rub. But I'm not familiar with your tire/ wheel combo.

There is no need to list alignment specs with the car lifted and tires hanging, as no one aligns the front end that way
.

 

Last edited by Bearing Bob (5/11/2020 6:37 PM)


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

5/11/2020 9:10 PM  #14


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Like BBII said, no hanging dimensions matter.  Only when sitting on the ground.  Be sure caster is set before camber.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/11/2020 9:32 PM  #15


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

I'm in the learning process here. I watch the shop do an alignment, they jack it up using a machine that measures everything. I don't have turning plates, what keeps the tires from splaying out when loosening the camber cam nuts with the weight on the wheels?
  I don't know why but I did adjust the caster before getting into the camber but doing the that messes up the caster because the caster adjustment is at an angle. My guess is you go back and forth before you get to the specs.????
  Still looking for an answer to how do I get more negative camber. It is maxed out up in the air on the ground after driving it it moves further out. 

Thanks for the discussion.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/12/2020 5:36 AM  #16


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Turn plates are really only necessary for caster adjustment.  They won't help with camber.  The wheel should move inwards or outwards without really needing turn plates on a typical concrete garage floor.

Alignment should be done in this order: caster, camber, toe.

Trying to half adjust one then do another leads to tail chasing.

How are you measuring caster? 

 

5/12/2020 7:00 AM  #17


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

I'm using the Tenhulzen tool for every thing except the camber. It's easier to use the Digital Protarctor.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/12/2020 8:19 AM  #18


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Its easier, but probably not as accurate.  Its kind of like trying to plumb a stud with a torpedo level instead of a 4' or 6' level.  Without a direct way to measure spindle inclination you would have to interpolate it from two different camber readings.  For that I've always used turn plates.  I'm not totally familiar with the system (I use Fastrax) so I need to ask how it measures caster?

 

5/12/2020 10:12 AM  #19


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/tnh-3300_us.pdf

I couldn't get it to copy, maybe this will work.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/12/2020 10:33 AM  #20


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

I adjusted the caster with it jacked up as well but let it down to take the reading. Don't get me wrong the alignment is all messed up now. It gives me something to do. If all else fails I can take it back to the shop. Their front end machine is fixed now. Except they won't be able to get the camber where it should be. I noticed something else last night, The camber cam on the drivers side is adjusted all the way positive and the cam on the passenger side is all the way negative. In all the years I've owned the car I don't remember seeing that. The car was wrecked before I bought it. Looks like the little old lady rear ended somebody. Structurally it looks like only the DS inner front "fender" had been replaced.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/12/2020 10:36 AM  #21


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Method 1 or 2?  What are you getting for a reading?

 

5/13/2020 6:51 PM  #22


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

I used Method 1 but don't remember what the numbers were. That was a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't get the full adjustment called for but it came close. Because it wouldn't adjust to what the specs called for I used the settings that it already had and made the adjustments using the same left right separation.
  But since I was last here I managed to adjust the camber on the one side I was having trouble with. I wasn't reading the protractor correctly. It doesn't read + or - . Just degrees and I wasn't looking at it while making the adjustments so I past 90º and didn't realize it. I placed the protractor on the tire so I could watch it change as I made the adjustments. I still have 1º to go but it will be a couple of days before I get back to it. Then it will be the left side.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

5/13/2020 7:10 PM  #23


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

I gotta write down entry adjustment I make on the car to remember it.

I built four stands 16 inch square by 12 inches high, made from 2x4s to rest the car on for alignments and such. For front wheel turn tables I used 12 inch square thin steel with grease between the two plates. I drive the car onto the front stands to keep the suspension at ride height.

If the digital gauge is difficult to read in relation to plump, pull either the top or bottom away and see which way the gauge reads.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

5/14/2020 6:04 AM  #24


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

I'm a tad confused by those instructions because it says the amount you turn the wheel in and out doesn't matter to accurately determine caster.  Using turn tables and the Fasttrax I always turn the wheel 15 degrees out, zero the caster gauge, and turn it 15 degrees in.  The reading on the gauge is the caster.  I'm guessing they are doing that with the window in the gauge.  It just seems prone to human error. 

 

5/19/2020 7:37 PM  #25


Re: Arnning drop camber adjustment

Well I gave up and took the car to the shop. They aligned it to the specs that I gave them. Their readings and mine wern't even it the same ball park. It isn't as squirly as it was and the steering wheel seems lighter. Interesting side note. A kid that I watched grow up in our church did the alignment. Old age seems to be creeping in but fun to see.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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