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5/24/2020 9:04 AM  #1


My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

I have the car put together,it's running and driving, not very well. If I drive it easy it's not too bad ,but it does run hotter than it should.(180 thermostat, 20"aluminum rad 3 core.flex fan with shroud ).If I get into it after about 3k it
starts breaking up and higher speeds it starts back firing thru carb.   It's a 69 block, pertronix distributor, edelbrock
performer plus intake,avs 2 650 carb,edelbrock heat insulator (for that carb &intake), comp cam 268 high energy,
cast iron manifolds, 2 1/4" dual exhaust. Timing is set at 10 degrees, when vacuum hose is connected it does
advance. 9.5 TO 1, iron heads. The heat gauge goes up to about 3/4's, never went more than 1/4 on gauge with
the 289 (351 copper rad 20" 180 thermostat). I'm sort of at a loss, kind of disgusted. It seems like every thing I
do is 2 steps forward, one step back. When I did the car 20+ years ago every thing went together no problems.
Anyways I'm putting this out there, I can sure use some help. MS,sally,ron68, to name a,few plus others have
really helped .WHATS YOUR TAKE ON THIS?  THANKS  mustang stu

 

5/24/2020 9:31 AM  #2


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

Does this happen while idling or driving or both?
Are you using 351w firing order?...gotta ask, especially going from 289 to 351w.

 

5/24/2020 11:35 AM  #3


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

Verify firing order first. 

Did you verify that the TDC mark on the balancer was really TDC #1?  Ford used at least three different pointer/balancer combinations over the years.  Its really easy to get mismatched parts.  I'd verify this with a piston stop.

What kind of distributor/coil/wires are on the engine?

As for overheating, get a real gauge on it.  The factory gauge is a glorified idiot light.  There's a lot of reasons why they can be "off".  I would at least temporarily get a known good gauge on it.  Overheating isn't 190 degrees.  Overheating isn't engine temperature above t-stat opening temp.  Overheating is temperature continuing to rise in an uncontrolled fashion past 210-220 degrees.  With proper system pressure its not going to puke until it hits about 250. 

 

5/24/2020 2:32 PM  #4


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

What was done to the 351 before installing it?   Vatted and rebuilt, or just yanked out of a 69 and hoped for the best?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/24/2020 4:51 PM  #5


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

MS the engine was rebuilt = $3500.00 worth balanced flywheel to damper,30 over. Pertronix flame thrower 1,
matching coil, new 7mm wires.TKO Performance talked about the damper, I will try to get number 1 cylinder 
piston as high as I can (tdc) to check it with the damper. When I do some thing like this, I try and do it the right way,any time I cut corners it bites me in the a#s. All parts listed in first post were new.
mustang stu

     Thread Starter
 

5/24/2020 4:54 PM  #6


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

PS.firing order is for 351 w or newer 302 HO.   mustang stu

     Thread Starter
 

5/24/2020 6:10 PM  #7


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

you know how to make a piston stop?   To help find TDC.....

Timing-timing-timing !!  What it sounds like to me......Find true TDC....install a timing tape on the balancer and it will give you ALL KINDS of good tuning info.
Check for vacuum leaks (especially around the carb base). BOTH of these things -can- cause over heating.
Like TKO said....190 ain't over heating.....200+ IMHO is over heating. Different radiator caps (higher number) can help with boil overs/over heating.
Last thing to mess with is the carb. Dial in the timing....-maybe- a lower thermostat(might need a spring in the lower hose?!) No vac. leaks then finish off with carb adjust.

Food for thought..........with 110*LSA the cam -may-be a little snotty at idle. One trick to clean that up is A LOT of initial timing. (10 degrees shore-ain't enuff!)
We'll get it though!!
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

5/25/2020 1:15 AM  #8


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

You should be running a 195 degree stat. That should be sufficient for proper running temperature. If you are running hot, a lower temp stat won't fix your problem. You need to find the cause of the overheating and not try a band aid like a lower temp stat. The suggestions about your timing should be checked out as improper timing will cause overheating and poor performance. Keep us posted on what you find out with the timing.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

5/25/2020 4:36 AM  #9


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

The coil is it feed with 12 volt or 6-9 volt ? If the coil is a 12 volt coil and you are feeding 6-9 volt thru the resistor wire you get kind of this, Under load it will backfire and run like crap. 

 

5/25/2020 6:23 AM  #10


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

mustang stu wrote:

PS.firing order is for 351 w or newer 302 HO.   mustang stu

What cam does it have in it?  Firing order follows the cam.  No difference between a cam for a 289/302 and a 351W other than the firing order. 
 

 

5/25/2020 6:24 AM  #11


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

Ron68 wrote:

You should be running a 195 degree stat. That should be sufficient for proper running temperature. If you are running hot, a lower temp stat won't fix your problem. You need to find the cause of the overheating and not try a band aid like a lower temp stat. The suggestions about your timing should be checked out as improper timing will cause overheating and poor performance. Keep us posted on what you find out with the timing.

Yep, all a lower temp t-stat does is delay the overheating a little bit. 
 

 

5/25/2020 6:28 AM  #12


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

Mach173 wrote:

The coil is it feed with 12 volt or 6-9 volt ? If the coil is a 12 volt coil and you are feeding 6-9 volt thru the resistor wire you get kind of this, Under load it will backfire and run like crap. 

And the Pertonix coil is a 12V coil.  Inability to rev without breaking up initially sounded to me like spark scatter.  We used to get this on the 5.0s once they were breathing more freely.  Higher energy ignition components would cure it.  That's why I asked about the distributor, etc.  TFIs seemed particularly prone to this.  Part of it I think was the modules didn't have enough dwell in them to produce a hot enough spark.  You can change dwell on the Pertronix by moving it closer to or farther away from the magnet.  I always set mine with the little plastic gauge they give you, but if you lost that and had to reset it, the long and short of it is that gap size matters. 
 

 

5/26/2020 3:50 PM  #13


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

I know you said the engine was rebuilt, don't rule out a possible bad seating intake valve.  Suggest performing a compression check if all aspects of the ignition system checks out OK.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

5/31/2020 2:11 PM  #14


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

I had to step away for a while,I guess it's the best thing to do sometimes. Will be checking the power booster to
make sure it's not leaking. Now its idling good and steady,pulls good till about 2.5 k, then it starts missing ,breaking 
up, still running hotter than it should be. Will check damper to pointer to tdc to make sure the damper isn't
mismatched to the engine (my 351w crankshaft pulley wouldn't fit the damper the builder installed, had to use 289 pulley). I have a back up distributor to install if I have to. I will try to keep everyone informed on the out come. A
compression test may be in the near future. THANKS FOR ALL THE GOOD INPUT  SO FAR mustang stu

     Thread Starter
 

5/31/2020 3:19 PM  #15


Re: My problem child, 67 mustang swap to 69 351w

Why 10 degrees?
Have you tried 12-14?

Remember the 70’s?
They retarded timing to get engine temperatures up to burn cleaner.

I did same thing.  My timing wasn’t advanced enough for the cam.  Initially I didn’t have a timing light.

Something to look at.

Last edited by Nos681 (12/14/2020 7:37 PM)

 

Board footera


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