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8/26/2020 3:59 PM  #1


Shop project variable speed band saw

Couple years back I purchased a 9" band saw from Lowes.

It is a bench top unit and is the perfect size for smaller, more detailed projects.  It was designed for wood with a blade speed of 2300 FPM BUT they make metal cutting blades for it.  I purchased a couple metal cutting blades and have used them on Aluminum and copper with out any issues but its way to fast to cut steel.  The blade lasts about a minute and then it's ruined.  

My original plan was to use pulleys and belts to slow down the blade but the unit is so small there is not a lot of room to add parts.  I then was told about the DC motors in treadmills.  They are high HP/torque and by changing the voltage you can change RPM but not loose torque.  

My initial research said get a treadmill remove the motor control board and the motor, attach a potentiometer (pot) to the board to the H, W, and L terminals and you are good to go.  However it was not that simple.  The first three treadmills I took apart had boards that were way more complicated and did not have the H, W, and L terminals.  I have taken apart 5 and will be changing the motors on everything in my shop but only treadmill 4 had the correct board.  I could get an MC60 board on eBay, which is what most are running, but they were $60-$100.  I started watching youtube videos on treadmill motors and I found another option, I could get an AC SCR voltage controller for about $15.00 and then wire it to a bridge rectifier and use that to control the speed of the motors.  I purchased all the parts and it worked well so set out to modify my bandsaw.

I mounted the motor to the back of the saw in the same location as the original AC motor.  The treadmill motor was about the same diameter but almost twice as long.


I then machined a pulley out of aluminum to fit on the shaft and match the belt that the bandsaw came with.


From there I just had to wire it up.  I wired it up three different ways to see which I liked better.  I used two different SCR controllers and the one correct motor controller from one of the donor treadmills.

This is the better of the two SCR controllers.  it comes with its own fan.  The supplied pot was to big at 500KΩ but I used my multimeter to determine that with the factory pot it started turning the motor at 150KΩ so I replaced it with a 120KΩ pot, because thats what I had and then ordered some 150KΩ pots.


This is the cheeper SCR controller.  It also had a 500KΩ and needs a 120KΩ unlike the one above that needs 150KΩ.  It does not have a fan and does not seam to be as good as the one above. The control is better with the one above and the moter seams... "happier". In the picture you can also see the bridge rectifier that converts AC to DC.

This is the treadmill control board.  Once I attached the pot everything else wired up the way it was designed.


So the question is, which is better, the SCR controllers or the treadmill controller and the answer is the both have advantages and draw backs.  The treadmill board uses PWM which makes the motor smoother, quieter and is better for the over all life of the brushes.  It also starts the motor at a slower RPM than the SCR units.  The down side is it has "soft start".  In other words, if you shut it off and then turn it back on the motor will not start turning until you turn the pot down so the speed is 0 and then back up to the desired speed.  

The SCR controllers do not have "soft start" so if you turn it off and then back on it will come back on at what ever speed the pot is set to. They are also higher amp which is nice for the bigger motors.  SCR is harder on brushes but not so much that it will be burning out motors.  People have uses this setup on shop tools for years without issue.  The motor runs a little louder but even that is not bad.  There are also less components in the SCR controller so less to go wrong AND its cheep to replace if it burns out.

I think I will use the treadmill board on my saw and the SCR controllers for the other projects.  I have also ordered an RPM meter so I can see exactly what kind of RPMs I am getting and can calculate the FPM on the saw so I am using the correct speeds for the material I am cutting.  I tried it on some steel and it worked well.  Went trough some sheetmetal like it was wood.  I then tried a piece of 3/16" steel and it cut that with little to no effort.  I am happy with it.

This is the biggest motor I have and I am going to put it on my Lathe/mill.  3 HP







 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

8/26/2020 6:38 PM  #2


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Great idea and execution Day, but you lost me at pot.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

8/26/2020 6:58 PM  #3


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

How did you get the treadmills?  If you got them from Craigslist, what was the max price you were willing to pay?  Using these as a source for high torque DC motors is interesting.  I want to learn more about it.


1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
 

8/26/2020 7:17 PM  #4


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Bearing Bob wrote:

Great...... you lost me at pot.

California kid..........just the word POT  and their head spins!!
My boy!
6sally6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/26/2020 7:38 PM  #5


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

THAT LOOKS GOOD DAZE.


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

8/26/2020 7:46 PM  #6


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

I've been wanting to do something similar, just didn't know how.


65 coupe, 351w, c4, power disk brakes, power r&p, vintage air.
 

8/26/2020 8:15 PM  #7


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Daze

l just bought a sewing machine servo motor for my industrial sewing machine, Right now it only cost me $56 shipped. it is an 800 watt 220 volt motor. Turns out to be about 1hp.  You can set it to run anywhere from 100 to 4500 rpm.  i think it would work very well for something like this. 

I actually will end up using it for either a wood lathe or my bandsaw, because it doesn't start correctly for sewing.
I actually saw one cheaper than mine yesterday. Search for Enduro servo motor on ebay.
 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

8/26/2020 8:29 PM  #8


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Rufus68 wrote:

How did you get the treadmills?  If you got them from Craigslist, what was the max price you were willing to pay?  Using these as a source for high torque DC motors is interesting.  I want to learn more about it.

Craigslist, yard sales and the like.  3 out of the 5 were free, for the other two, one was $20.00 and the other was $15. Even if the treadmill doesn't work most of the time it is the board not the motor. 

Then two of them had boards that were not good for my project but still worked so I put the boards up on eBay.  One has already sold for $35.00 and the other is still available.  Basicaly I have almost no money into this project. and when the other one sels I will be money ahead

It worked out way better than I anticipated.  Happy to help guide you let me know if you have more questions.
 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/27/2020 9:31 AM  #9


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Alan wrote:

Daze

l just bought a sewing machine servo motor for my industrial sewing machine, Right now it only cost me $56 shipped. it is an 800 watt 220 volt motor. Turns out to be about 1hp.  You can set it to run anywhere from 100 to 4500 rpm.  i think it would work very well for something like this. 

I actually will end up using it for either a wood lathe or my bandsaw, because it doesn't start correctly for sewing.
I actually saw one cheaper than mine yesterday. Search for Enduro servo motor on ebay.
 

...just a quick detour from the heart of this thread...
I looked up the Enduro servo motor on eBay.  I saw it included On/Off buttons, question is how do you control the variable speed.  Is this included or what kind of switch do you recommend?
 


1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
 

8/27/2020 4:10 PM  #10


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Rufus
The motor has a variable speed switch which hooks to a foot pedal on a sewing machine. This motor also has a digital speed control which you set the RPM of the motor. You would just have to take the spring off of the foot pedal switch and have it on all the time. Then set the rpm you want.
 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

8/28/2020 10:35 AM  #11


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Update,
I have the SCR controllers working as well as the treadmill controller, other than the controller has a slower start up speed.  By adding a choke on the + wire after it leaves the rectifier and by putting a capacitor and resister parallel to the motor after the choke the motor and SCR unit now run quieter and there is almost no sparking where the brushes make contact inside the motor. This should prolong brush life.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/28/2020 11:30 AM  #12


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Nice work Daze, good to see you delving deeper into the DC motor controls. I toyed around with an old tread mill motor but it was too small for any machine tools. For a while I looked into making a variable pulley system like the big "DoAll" band saws.I also had a three phase  1 hp with a VFD but I bailed on it as well in favour of putting a jackshaft reduction on my bandsaw. Going the electronic route would have involved more cash than I was willing to spend whereas I had all the stuff in my "parts" bins for the jack shaft.
 But any way congrats again on the nifty system, nthere is nothing as good as infinitly adjustable speeds
Here are a few pics of my set up.



Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/28/2020 12:05 PM  #13


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Rudi wrote:

Nice setup!! If my bandsaw was bigger i probably would have gone that way as was my original plan before I realized I didn’t have enough room.

BTW I didn’t know Roush and Edelbrock made a bandsaw 😁😁😁


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     Thread Starter
 

8/28/2020 8:10 PM  #14


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

OKayyyyyyyyyy........so a DC motor is better than an AC motor because what?....
It is EZ'er to make it variable speed?....more torque?
Not real savoy on 'lecterc stuff.
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/28/2020 11:19 PM  #15


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

6sally6 wrote:

OKayyyyyyyyyy........so a DC motor is better than an AC motor because what?.....
6sal6

An AC motor can not very the speed unless the motor is designed for that and most are not. That’s why most power tools that have AC motors use a pulley system. AC motors that you can very the speed on will have reduced torque at lower speed. On a DC motor the speed is based on voltage so it is a lot simpler  to very the speed. Reducing the speed will not reduce torque on a DC motor.


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     Thread Starter
 

8/29/2020 12:47 AM  #16


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Bearing Bob wrote:

Great idea and execution Day, but you lost me at pot.

 
I made it to SCR.

Any schematics so we can understand the wiring?
I know a little about electricity.
This is rocket science. 😁

Last edited by Nos681 (8/29/2020 12:57 AM)

 

8/29/2020 3:19 PM  #17


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

A long time ago, Mr Tim (remember him?) gave me a gizmo that was in a short extension cord. It could be plugged into a circular saw or 120v drill or other appliance to vary the speed.  I guess those are actually DC motors inside that AC tool?   I never knew HOW it worked, just that it did.   Seems like some other Mustanger owns it As a result of my last move.

I guess that would not work in an AC bandsaw ?  Just curious.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/29/2020 3:20 PM  #18


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Nos681 wrote:

I made it to SCR.

Any schematics so we can understand the wiring?

The SCRs came with wiring diagrams but they both hooked up almost the same.





Then you take the two AC output wires or the one output wire and the common and they go the the rectifier.  This converts AC to DC and from there you go to the motor.



Make sense?


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/29/2020 3:26 PM  #19


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

MS wrote:

A long time ago, Mr Tim (remember him?) 

I guess that would not work in an AC bandsaw ? Just curious.

I original purchased one of these (sounds a lot like what you are talking about.)


It didn't work very well and after doing some research I found that it would drastically shorten the life of the AC motor.   


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/29/2020 5:56 PM  #20


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Yep
Looked like that thing...


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/30/2020 2:43 AM  #21


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Daze wrote:

Couple years back I purchased a 9" band saw from Lowes.

It is a bench top unit and is the perfect size for smaller, more detailed projects.  It was designed for wood with a blade speed of 2300 FPM BUT they make metal cutting blades for it.  I purchased a couple metal cutting blades and have used them on Aluminum and copper with out any issues but its way to fast to cut steel.  The blade lasts about a minute and then it's ruined.  

My original plan was to use pulleys and belts to slow down the blade but the unit is so small there is not a lot of room to add parts.  I then was told about the DC motors in treadmills.  They are high HP/torque and by changing the voltage you can change RPM but not loose torque.  

My initial research said get a treadmill remove the motor control board and the motor, attach a potentiometer (pot) to the board to the H, W, and L terminals and you are good to go.  However it was not that simple.  The first three treadmills I took apart had boards that were way more complicated and did not have the H, W, and L terminals.  I have taken apart 5 and will be changing the motors on everything in my shop but only treadmill 4 had the correct board.  I could get an MC60 board on eBay, which is what most are running, but they were $60-$100.  I started watching youtube videos on treadmill motors and I found another option, I could get an AC SCR voltage controller for about $15.00 and then wire it to a bridge rectifier and use that to control the speed of the motors.  I purchased all the parts and it worked well so set out to modify my bandsaw.

I mounted the motor to the back of the saw in the same location as the original AC motor.  The treadmill motor was about the same diameter but almost twice as long.


I then machined a pulley out of aluminum to fit on the shaft and match the belt that the bandsaw came with.


From there I just had to wire it up.  I wired it up three different ways to see which I liked better.  I used two different SCR controllers and the one correct motor controller from one of the donor treadmills.

This is the better of the two SCR controllers.  it comes with its own fan.  The supplied pot was to big at 500KΩ but I used my multimeter to determine that with the factory pot it started turning the motor at 150KΩ so I replaced it with a 120KΩ pot, because thats what I had and then ordered some 150KΩ pots.


This is the cheeper SCR controller.  It also had a 500KΩ and needs a 120KΩ unlike the one above that needs 150KΩ.  It does not have a fan and does not seam to be as good as the one above. The control is better with the one above and the moter seams... "happier". In the picture you can also see the bridge rectifier that converts AC to DC.

This is the treadmill control board.  Once I attached the pot everything else wired up the way it was designed.


So the question is, which is better, the SCR controllers or the treadmill controller and the answer is the both have advantages and draw backs.  The treadmill board uses PWM which makes the motor smoother, quieter and is better for the over all life of the brushes.  It also starts the motor at a slower RPM than the SCR units.  The down side is it has "soft start".  In other words, if you shut it off and then turn it back on the motor will not start turning until you turn the pot down so the speed is 0 and then back up to the desired speed.  

The SCR controllers do not have "soft start" so if you turn it off and then back on it will come back on at what ever speed the pot is set to. They are also higher amp which is nice for the bigger motors.  SCR is harder on brushes but not so much that it will be burning out motors.  People have uses this setup on shop tools for years without issue.  The motor runs a little louder but even that is not bad.  There are also less components in the SCR controller so less to go wrong AND its cheep to replace if it burns out.

I think I will use the treadmill board on my saw and the SCR controllers for the other projects.  I have also ordered an RPM meter so I can see exactly what kind of RPMs I am getting and can calculate the FPM on the saw so I am using the correct speeds for the material I am cutting.  I tried it on some steel and it worked well.  Went trough some sheetmetal like it was wood.  I then tried a piece of 3/16" steel and it cut that with little to no effort.  I am happy with it.

This is the biggest motor I have and I am going to put it on my Lathe/mill.  3 HP


 

 
Thank you Daze.  Sounds like I may have some future projects.
Pictures definitely help me.

As for your “soft start.”
When you “zero the pot”, are placing it at max resistance or minimum?

Could you place a momentary push button across the two legs of the potentiometer? (Short across)
Or “in-line” on a leg of potentiometer? (Open up)
Then you wouldn’t have to always turn the potentiometer back to zero once you have your blade speed setup...”Just push the button to restart”....Wa La!

Last edited by Nos681 (8/30/2020 2:49 AM)

 

8/30/2020 9:30 AM  #22


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

Nos681 wrote:

When you “zero the pot”, are placing it at max resistance or minimum?

Could you place a momentary push button across the two legs of the potentiometer? (Short across)
Or “in-line” on a leg of potentiometer? (Open up)
Then you wouldn’t have to always turn the potentiometer back to zero once you have your blade speed setup...”Just push the button to restart”....Wa La!

It doesn't quite work that way.  A pot has three terminals.  The resistance is between the outside terminals and the middle terminal.  As you turn the knob the resistance between one outside terminal and the inside terminal decreases but the resistance between the other outside terminal and the inside terminal increases.  All tree terminals are used. H and L attach to the outside terminals and W attaches to the middle.  Swapping H and L on the pot determines if the knob turns clockwise or counterclockwise to increase speed.
 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/30/2020 9:58 AM  #23


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

KB ELECTRONICS  is your friend for DC motor controls. They have all kinds of speed and torque controls.                                                                                                   

 

8/30/2020 10:10 AM  #24


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

DC wrote:

KB ELECTRONICS  is your friend for DC motor controls. They have all kinds of speed and torque controls.                                                                                                   

Thanks for the info.  I had never heard of them before.  I looked them up and it looks like they have lots of good options, but with prices between $100 and $300 I think I will stick with the budget friendly DIY controllers


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     Thread Starter
 

8/31/2020 7:48 AM  #25


Re: Shop project variable speed band saw

I have converted most of my stationary power equipment to three  Phase motors with single phase input frequency controls. I like the instant reverse for running taps on the drill press and mill. Hitachi makes a few affordable ones. I usually look on ebay for best deals.

 

Board footera


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