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66, 289, 4V autolite with dura spark ignition and 3G Alt.
A few days ago I was working on the Mustang and like a dumb a__ l left the key in the run position. I went out yesterday and noticed the alternator was warm, that's when I found the key in run. Now the car will not start. The coil seemed to ohm OK so I decided to replace the dura spark thinking I may have burned it up. Still no start.
Tried a different coil no start. (This was a 9 V I had but figured the car would still fire with it)
Rechecked wiring.
Ohmed the pick-up coil in the distributer 780 ohms. So this didn't burn open.
Put a Simpson meter on the coil to ground. Tried both pos and neg. Got 12 volts but no pulse when cranking, just dipped a little.
Any ideas before I try another dura spark? Am I missing something obvious?
One other thing I forgot to mention, there was a slow charge on the battery the whole time so voltage was there the whole time.
Last edited by wsinsle (9/25/2020 2:57 PM)
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"YOU ax'en me Walt???
....You are the (one of) electritical guru on here!!!"
6sal6
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6sally6 wrote:
"YOU ax'en me Walt???
![]()
....You are the (one of) electritical guru on here!!!"
6sal6
That was my reaction as well!
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Replaced coil twice and ignition module?
Am i understanding correctly?
Do you have power going to ignition module?
Fusible link or inline fuse?
Do you have another reluctor?
Possible that it got demagnetized with ignition on and charger going overnight.
The reluctor is magnetized normally.
Last edited by Nos681 (9/25/2020 6:11 PM)
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Ground strap inside distributor??
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If you pull distributor and spin it, as the reluctor tabs pass the pickup coil, you should get a pulse.
I haven’t a clue voltage wise...milliamps my guess.
I’m sure you have an oscilloscope.
Haven’t touched one in years.
A real electrical engineer could tell ya how to do it.
Not me.
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Have you tried something as simple as putting a jumper wire on the duraspark module positive?
Last edited by Greg B (9/25/2020 6:37 PM)
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Another place to inspect are the wires going to the pick up coil in distributor.
The wires have to move with vacuum advance...a mechanical problem again?😁
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I did the same thing a few years ago (left power applied for a long time without a running engine). The Duraspark box was very warm and the car would crank but not fire. I replaced the Duraspark box and all was good. I don't recall the alternator being warm but didn't check it either. You may have damaged something there too but you can have it checked
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This has been frustrating but I'm thinking I got 2 bad Dura Sparks. I replaced the first after leaving the key on but still didn't start. After multiple testing I bought another module and still no start.
Recap:
Mike & MS: "YOU ax'en me Walt??? ....You are the (one of) electritical guru on here!!!"
My head was hurting from beating it off the wall, I was willing to try anything. LOL
NOS:
Replaced coil twice and ignition module?
Am i understanding correctly?
Actually purchased a second Module (original +2) I had a coil 0n the shelf that I tried. It worked the last time used.
Do you have power going to ignition module?
Fusible link or inline fuse?
Yes, voltage is good to coil and module with key on.
Do you have another reluctor?
Possible that it got demagnetized with ignition on and charger going overnight.
The reluctor is magnetized normally.
No but I can check and see if I can buy one without buying a whole distributer.
If you pull distributor and spin it, as the reluctor tabs pass the pickup coil, you should get a pulse.
I haven’t a clue voltage wise...milliamps my guess.
I’m sure you have an oscilloscope.
Haven’t touched one in years.
A real electrical engineer could tell ya how to do it.
Not me.
I unplugged the distributer and and connected a Simpson Meter on milli volts. (A simpson is a old style meter with a needle not digital, it will react faster that digital for those who may not know) I cranked the motor and got pulses. Connected it to the other end of wires near the Dura Spark and got pulses there too. Not sure how large the pulses should be either.
Another place to inspect are the wires going to the pick up coil in distributor.
The wires have to move with vacuum advance...a mechanical problem again?
Everything looked good inside the distributer.
Barry:
Ground strap inside distributor??
Everything looked good inside the distributer.
Greg B:
Have you tried something as simple as putting a jumper wire on the duraspark module positive?
I thought about this 3 beers after quitting last night. May have damaged the ignition switch and loose power while cranking. Will try today.
John Ha:
I did the same thing a few years ago (left power applied for a long time without a running engine). The Duraspark box was very warm and the car would crank but not fire. I replaced the Duraspark box and all was good. I don't recall the alternator being warm but didn't check it either. You may have damaged something there too but you can have it checked
Still think I got bad Dura Sparks but thanks for reminding me about the 3G I might have to replace LOL!!!
I am going to buy another Module today and set up a test gig. Stay tuned. Same bat time same bat channel!
Last edited by wsinsle (9/26/2020 7:32 AM)
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Curious to know if the big bad wolf won another round or if everyone lived happily ever after ... :-)
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Can't answer about the Dura Spark, but it is common for the alternator to get warm when leaving the key on for extended periods. I did the same thing when I was replacing the drive belt, had the belt off, keyed the vehicle on for some reason and then got distracted. Came back a few hours later and the pulley was super hot to the touch. I thought I had ruined a new alternator. After speaking to the place that built the alternator they said it is quite common. So hopefully that removes one of your worries
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John Ha wrote:
Curious to know if the big bad wolf won another round or if everyone lived happily ever after ... :-)
Just as an update, The first 2 replacements I got were the cheapest replacements. That's all the local shops had in stock. I ordered a better one and it came in this afternoon. I put it on my test jig and got a spark out of the coil. Put it in the car, no start. Put it back on the jig and still get spark, didn't blow it up. Brenda and I had plan to go out with friends so that's as far as I got. Tomorrow I'll take the test distributer off the jig and connect to the one on the car and check for spark, then do the same with the coil.
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So after getting my 3rd Dura Spark module, one that actually worked, I did some more testing. Found out the coil was bad too. It tested OK with the ohm meter but no spark out on my test jig. So go get a new 12 volt coil tomorrow and should fire up.
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wsinsle wrote:
So after getting my 3rd Dura Spark module, one that actually worked, I did some more testing. Found out the coil was bad too. It tested OK with the ohm meter but no spark out on my test jig. So go get a new 12 volt coil tomorrow and should fire up.
What brand ignition module were failures?
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wsinsle wrote:
So after getting my 3rd Dura Spark module, one that actually worked, I did some more testing. Found out the coil was bad too. It tested OK with the ohm meter but no spark out on my test jig. So go get a new 12 volt coil tomorrow and should fire up.
Let me guess
..........Advance Auto Parts!
6sal6
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Nos681 wrote:
wsinsle wrote:
So after getting my 3rd Dura Spark module, one that actually worked, I did some more testing. Found out the coil was bad too. It tested OK with the ohm meter but no spark out on my test jig. So go get a new 12 volt coil tomorrow and should fire up.
What brand ignition module were failures?
My original was from Advance, it was BWD. When I went back to replace it they did not have that one in stock, so I got their cheaper version they call Drive Works. That one never worked. I went to O'Riely's and all they had was their cheaper version in stock, "Master Pro", that one never worked. I ordered on line at Advance and got another BWD delivered to home, that one worked. Never tried O'Rielys better version.
Last edited by wsinsle (10/03/2020 12:53 PM)
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I just ordered a Motorcraft module for my conversion which cost $50. I figured the extra dollars spent would pay for the labor of having to R&R the cheap module. That said, I'm sure I've jinxed the Ford piece.
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Bearing Bob wrote:
I just ordered a Motorcraft module for my conversion which cost $50. I figured the extra dollars spent would pay for the labor of having to R&R the cheap module. That said, I'm sure I've jinxed the Ford piece.
Where did you get Motorcraft for $50, they are listed around here for well over $100. The BWD at Advance for $40 worked fine for me until I left the key on with the charger. If I could get Motorcraft for $10 more I wouldn't have a problem with that.
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I bought Motorcraft box and coil through Rockauto.
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wsinsle wrote:
Bearing Bob wrote:
I just ordered a Motorcraft module for my conversion which cost $50. I figured the extra dollars spent would pay for the labor of having to R&R the cheap module. That said, I'm sure I've jinxed the Ford piece.
Where did you get Motorcraft for $50, they are listed around here for well over $100. The BWD at Advance for $40 worked fine for me until I left the key on with the charger. If I could get Motorcraft for $10 more I wouldn't have a problem with that.
Ok I lied, it was $61 @ Summit. I found it at Rock Auto for $50, but when I went back to order it a few days later they were out of stock.
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Bearing Bob wrote:
I just ordered a Motorcraft module for my conversion which cost $50. I figured the extra dollars spent would pay for the labor of having to R&R the cheap module. That said, I'm sure I've jinxed the Ford piece.
What! Conversion! Say it aint so!
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Rock Auto shows at $56.99 now.
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RV6 wrote:
Bearing Bob wrote:
I just ordered a Motorcraft module for my conversion which cost $50. I figured the extra dollars spent would pay for the labor of having to R&R the cheap module. That said, I'm sure I've jinxed the Ford piece.
What! Conversion! Say it aint so!
Well... as soon as I started ordering parts for the Duraspark conversion, old Rosie started running way better than ever. Not sure how long she can keep it up, so I'll keep those DS parts on stand by.
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Bearing Bob wrote:
RV6 wrote:
Bearing Bob wrote:
I just ordered a Motorcraft module for my conversion which cost $50. I figured the extra dollars spent would pay for the labor of having to R&R the cheap module. That said, I'm sure I've jinxed the Ford piece.
What! Conversion! Say it aint so!
Well... as soon as I started ordering parts for the Duraspark conversion, old Rosie started running way better than ever. Not sure how long she can keep it up, so I'll keep those DS parts on stand by.
Reckon it could be that hi-dollar Cali gas?! Have they changed to winter grade mixture or sump'in?!
6s6
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