The E in FE is not for economical!!! The first question you need to answer for yourself is what do expect out of the motor……mild street build, 500 HP, enough torque to move a mountain, enough vacuum to operate power brakes?
 
Did any paperwork come with the motor? I would start with verifying what the PO said about it being rebuilt and pull the pan and heads. Verify the stroke from the crank ID. Has it been turned down?
 
If the bore is .030 over, you might be safe on cylinder wall thickness. If it’s .060 over, it needs to be sonic checked for certain. With core shift, wall thickness can be all over the place. I had a .060 over block showing less than .100 in two non-thrust wall areas, was told it might cause some overheating and good to go otherwise. Had a .030 block that could not go to .040 without making several cylinders too thin.
 
Have all the press in oil passage plugs been replaced with pipe plugs?
 
See what pistons are in it to determine the compression ratio and bore diameter. You don’t need a 12-1 motor for the street. Where do the pistons stop in the bore at top dead center? Flush with the deck, near flush, down .100 or more?  What heads do you have? The casting number will give a good idea on head CC. That car should have had a 14 bolt exhaust pattern. Bottom row center cylinders would not be drilled. Top row outer holes would be lower than center.
 
There are plenty of choices for aluminum heads with Edelbrock, Survival Motorsports, Bear Block Motors (BBM) and Trick Flow. Stay away from the cheap knock off stuff. Weigh the cost of these against how much $$$ it would take to correct any issues yours might have.   
 
What cam is in it now? Hydraulic, solid, number on the end? Does it have end support stands for the rocker arms? Check the dimensions on the rocker arms and rocker shafts to see if they are within tolerance….. it’s a great place to bleed off oil pressure.
 
Headers will be expensive. Ford Powertrain Applications makes a set that will fit well. I hear good things about REF headers as well. Buy the 5/16 hex head ARP header bolts (3/8x16 thread) and a ratchet wrench to make bolting them in easier.
 
Is the clutch linkage going to be mechanical or hydraulic? The quick time bell has the opening in a lower clock position than a Ford bell housing. It could make things a little out of alignment for mechanical linkage. Buy alignment pins from the link, very easy to install and adjust as you fine tune the alignment.
 
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/dowels.html
 
If all this checks out good, keep the FE knowing it won’t be cheap. If parts are not checking out, then a Windsor will most defiantly be cheaper to build.
 
I like the FE motors and will justify the extra dollars to myself to get it built.

From a pure cost standpoint, you can probably build two stroker small blocks for the cost of a stroker FE.  Once you get into aftermarket heads the power advantage the FE has over a SBF pretty much goes out the window. 

That said, we don't really do this hobby using cost alone to make our decisions.  In fact, cost is usually pretty low on the list provided we can actually afford either option. 

If you can afford to spend $12,000-$14,000 on the engine then I would build a 445 stroker from the 390 using Survival modified Edelbrock Performer RPM heads.  Such an engine will make an easy 500HP and still be a very tractable engine in terms of idle quality, vacuum, etc.

By contrast, you can build a stroked Windsor for $6,000-$7,000 that will make less torque than the FE, but the same power (you're going to wind it a bit higher to do that, but nothing crazy).

My thoughts are that everyone has a stroker small block.  Hell, I've got 3.  I've also got a 390 under one of my workbenches for the day when I finally decide that I've had enough of everyone having a stroked Windsor and finally build my own 445.  If the car is already set up for the FE you're ahead of where I was starting, and part of my decision had to do with everything around the engine I'd need to change.  You would have to spend a decent chunk of change to go to a Windsor, so the cost disparity is probably not as great as my initial quotes. 

Need pitcherz fer sure B4 a good decision can be made.
6sally6

Raymond_B wrote:

If the engine is complete and needs nothing why not throw it in and start it up. Then evaluate it from there? We all like spending other people's money, , but in this case I'd at least give it a whirl before moving on to other options. My bet is that it will be super fun with the 5 spd.

I wish it was that easy, that was my original thought but I'm a guy and we always want to go bigger. I think I'm going to stay with the FE. This is all I know right now, Edelbrock performer aluminum intake, D2TEAA heads  and was told it was rebuilt by a good mechanic. I think right now I need to listen to Bolted and take the heads and pan off and see what I got. All though I've done mechanic work growing up, I was more of a body guy. I know a very good machinist but he isn't a Ford guy. I'd like some help once I find out about the block to put all the pieces together. I'm thinking a 445 stroker as TKO suggested, good aluminum heads and roller cam. I want it to be streetable but I think Mike and I have the same CAM gene, I want the car to shake a little too. I've never built a motor so any help will be appreciated. 

The issue with an FE with a hydraulic cam was that the rockers were non adjustable.  The benefit of the shaft rockers was that you just bolt them on and go.  The disadvantage of the shaft rockers is that you just bolt them on and go.  If something is a little bit off there's not much you can do.  My advice would be to pony up for aftermarket roller rockers that are adjustable.  Adding the end stands to prevent shaft failure is also a good idea.

I have a '66 Fairlane with an FE, so I'm biased, but:

1.) The FE is what the Fairlane was born with.
2.) You already have a 390 and other parts

I'd be inclined to go through the 390 and verify what you have. If you have the regular  Edelbrock Performer, I'd trade up to the Pefromer RPM. The straight up Performer is considered Low performance by the FE crowd. Adjustable rockers are nice, unless you have a super-duper machinist who can set up the valve stem heights "just so" so that the valvetrain all works like it's supposed to with the non-adjustables. You don't have to go with the full aftermarket roller rocker set-up. The original ford style adjustable rockers are readily available as individual pieces or as complete assemblies with the shafts and stands. Depending on how radical a cam you choose, and how stiff the valvesprings are it might be good idea to use end stands and solid spacers on the rockers instead of the springs that are usually used to separate the rockers on the shafts. Not sure where that places you cost-wise relative to a complete roller rocker set-up though.

If horsepower per dollar is the deciding factor, Then I agree with others that the Windsor based platform wins, but maybe not by as much as has been stated.


 

wsinsle wrote:

Raymond_B wrote:

If the engine is complete and needs nothing why not throw it in and start it up. Then evaluate it from there? We all like spending other people's money, , but in this case I'd at least give it a whirl before moving on to other options. My bet is that it will be super fun with the 5 spd.

I wish it was that easy, that was my original thought but I'm a guy and we always want to go bigger. I think I'm going to stay with the FE. This is all I know right now, Edelbrock performer aluminum intake, D2TEAA heads  and was told it was rebuilt by a good mechanic. I think right now I need to listen to Bolted and take the heads and pan off and see what I got. All though I've done mechanic work growing up, I was more of a body guy. I know a very good machinist but he isn't a Ford guy. I'd like some help once I find out about the block to put all the pieces together. I'm thinking a 445 stroker as TKO suggested, good aluminum heads and roller cam. I want it to be streetable but I think Mike and I have the same CAM gene, I want the car to shake a little too. I've never built a motor so any help will be appreciated. 

Gotcha, if the engine is on a stand you could simply flip it upside down and can probably see the piston part numbers. But I totally understand wanting to take it apart to learn and positively identify everything. 

"Are FE's worth the extra money"?
Look at this and then...........you-tell-me!!!

Last edited by 6sally6 (12/30/2020 8:34 PM)

Glad to see you are going to open it up and take a look, it will go far in getting the motor right for you.
 
D2 heads are the go to TRUCK head. Something to watch for when it comes to factory or aftermarket heads is the exhaust port floor. D2’s and the C7AE-H will match and work well with a header flange for a 390 GT head or what was typical for a Fairlane 390 motor. The Cobra Jet, C80E heads have a different elevation on the port floor and I think the C6AE-R matches it. So… all that to say be very careful when you go to but headers, the mismatch with the port could have you chasing exhaust leaks from now on. Whether you have bigger valves installed in the D2’s or buy aftermarket heads, you will also need to watch the valve sizing and your cylinder bore. Too big of a valve could cause contact with the cylinder wall. When I bought Barry’s heads from Survival, he set them up with valve springs good for a hydraulic roller good to .600 lift. I don’t know anything about Edelbrock’s or the BBM’s. With the TFS heads, they may need some milling on the flats for the rocker shaft stands get the geometry correct. Know what you want when it comes time to order. Pick your heads then pick your headers.
 
You can wander through the broccoli patch with rocker arms. To me…where a steel rocker arms rides on a steel shaft there will have more friction at that point than on the tip of the valve where the rocker arms rides on it. If you find a rocker arm with needle bearings for the shaft, something got reduced to make up for the extra bearing. A smaller shaft may or may not have issues. Reduced material in the rocker body could lead to failures. I have factory steel non adjustable that were resized from Rocker Shafts Unlimited in California. They were resized with bronze bushings on oversized shafts and cost me more than the new cheapies you can get from Summit or Jegs. End stands from Precision Oil Pumps are a great buy. He was also cheaper than the speed shops for the rocker shaft stand studs. I kept the springs and added the shims to make sure the rocker arms were aligned over the rocker tip.
 
It doesn’t matter if you buy adjustable or non adjustable rockers, if you go with a roller cam, which I highly recommend, you will need new pushrods. The Morel hydraulic roller lifters have a good name for longevity with the FE crowd. They also came with a 5/16” cup. My ball on ball pushrods came in around 8.5” with a 5/16 ball and 3/8 ball from Smith Brothers. They are not that hard to measure. I borrowed a 12” dial caliper for the first set and bought one from Amazon for the second set. It wasn’t that expensive. If you are measuring pushrods for adjustable rocker arms, make sure the adjuster screw is showing no more than about 3 threads. Fewer threads can cause the cup on the pushrod contact the rocker arm body.
 
I will second the RPM Performer for an intake upgrade. I got mine second hand for $325 plus the ride from a forum member on Jay Browns FE Forum.
 
The crank should have a stamp on it somewhere toward the center to indicate the stroke, something like a 1U, 2U, 3U. The 390 and 427 will have the same stroke, the 428 is different. Some of the 427 cranks had a $ stamped on them. For the block, the cylinder bore is the best way to make a determination. The 352 and mirrored 105 on the front of the block are typical for different casting foundries, I think. I’ve read stories about 390 blocks that could be bored safely to a 428. Blocks cast as side oilers and drilled for center oilers…there is no telling to what you may find.
 
When it comes to break in time. I would suggest a day on the dyno or build a stand on your drive way and run it…. for a while. Make sure it isn’t leaking oil, hot idle oil pressure is good, not making any funny noises, and whatever else you might think of. It will be a lot easier to do out of the car versus in the car.
 
 
I wasn’t worried about the car shaking from the cam, I was more interested in enough vacuum for power brakes. A good cam could net you with better manners, HP, and torque without causing the rain drops to dance across the hood. The right mufflers could make that happen. Brent Lykins helped me with cam selection to work with my combo of parts and what I wanted in the end. My custom Comp Cams hydraulic roller and Morel lifter was around $900.

"Rowdy".........I like that!
Going with FoMoCo adjustable rockers instead of the 'high-end.bells & whistles;eye candy-wallet lightening-race only-build budget over kill could be a good economy move.
X-2 on replacing the Performer with the Performer RPM. Selling the Performer will be NO PROB because ALL FE guys are wanting a lighter intake!! (that puppy weighs A LOT....like 50lb +!!!)
Check with the guys you bought it from to see if they have a good used 428 crank and assembly......might save a few coins that way too. Not sure what the cu. in. would be with a 390 and a 428 crank. (411?)
Now.......converting over to a roller set up might be a little pricey though.
Ehhhh.....just-pictures-of-dead-presidents, right?!!
6sally6

An iron FE intake weighs close to 100lbs.  The first one I took off I pulled all the bolts, broke it loose front and rear from the gaskets and tried to yank it off with a couple fingers inside the carb hole.  I thought I missed a bolt or something.  I couldn't believe how heavy it was.

On rockers, there's merits to both schools of thought, but the idea that an aftermarket rocker is going to fail over a stock one seems unlikely for two reasons.  First, how much are you really going to drive it?  If the life of the rockers is 100k that's going to serve most guys their life with the car and well beyond.  I remember guys talking about the life expectancy of Crane roller rockers for the 5.0, because they were aluminum.  Lots of guys said they would wear out.  Well, my buddy has a '95 Cobra with over 200k on a set of those rockers.  The engine underneath them has been rebuilt 3 times.  Each time the rockers passed every test thrown at them.

Second, aftermarket parts (I'm talking about real deal good parts, not eBay made in China crap) are built with racing in mind.  Guys that are pushing their cars to the max, where 5HP is a major advantage, etc.  Thinner sections, etc. don't necessarily mean they are weaker.  It all comes down to material selection.  How a rocker is loaded can also make a difference.  When you point load a stamped rocker on the shaft its loaded at that same point every time.  When you do that with a roller rocker the roller isn't loaded in the same spot every time because it rotates in operation.

My thoughts, FE rockers are expensive no matter what you do other than just slapping the stock stuff on and hoping for the best.  The shaft rockers almost no matter how they are set up is a major advantage over stud mounted rockers in terms of high RPM stability.  All that said, you are building a high performance engine in the modern era.  I personally won't build an engine without a roller cam and roller rockers.  Every engine built today by the OEMs that still use pushrods has a full roller valve train from the factory. 

That said, part of the reason I decided not to built the 390 I have is that the cost to build it the way I wanted was a lot more than the 347 I got for a screaming deal.  My thoughts have always been that I simply don't compromise.  If I can't do it the way I want now; I'll just wait.  BUT, its a different story when  you're trying to get a running car together, and at times I wander from that resolve in the interest of getting something on the road.  I always plan to go back to it later, but usually if it works I've become smart enough to leave well enough alone.  Temporary fixes have a habit of becoming permanent.  I read that in an old David Frieburger article in Car Car years ago.  Its in my top 5 of truer words were never spoken about the car hobby. 

Started to tear down the motor today and took a few pics. Looks to be a rebuilt 309 30 over and standard stroke.
[url=https://imgbb.com/]
Will pull the oil pan off tomorrow.[/url]