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4/19/2021 5:22 PM  #1


Priming new engine with oil

Brand new 408 stroker.  Ford roller lifters.  Comp Cams roller rockers.  One rocker on 1-4 bank and one on the 5-8 bank flow oil like a river.  The remaining 14 have normal to less than normal flow.  High volume pump turned 1,000 rpm with power drill. I have never seen this occur before.  Next step is to relocate the two free-flowing rockers to try and see if the flow goes with the rockers or if it stays with the free-flowing lifters.  I have rotated the crank several times and resumed pumping at various points of crank rotation with no change in flow.  It does same whether that lifter is on base circle or max lift.

All new parts. Engine has not been fired. 

My concern is the max flow from the two rockers might be bleeding pressure that could be put to better use at the bottom end.

All rockers carefully adjusted with zero lash plus 1/2 turn.

Very strange!

Ideas?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/19/2021 5:50 PM  #2


Re: Priming new engine with oil

So long as you HAVE oil flow is the main thang!
Did you put any grease/lube on top of the lifters that may have partially stopped-up the push rods?!
I'd 'fire it' and see if it changes.
You got oil!....You got pressure!...so doubtful it would be a problem before you could shut it off and damage anything.
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

4/19/2021 6:57 PM  #3


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Did you try relocating lifters to see if it follows lifters?

Perhaps swap low flow with higher flow?

Last edited by Nos681 (4/19/2021 6:59 PM)

 

4/19/2021 7:06 PM  #4


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Wow, that’s odd!! Is it the back cylinders on each side? Seems like it would be the lifters over the rockers. Is there a visual difference in the lifters?

Better to find now than in the car. This could only get worse as the engine gets up to operating temp.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

4/19/2021 7:25 PM  #5


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Why are you using a high volume pump? I thought that conventional wisdom was that high volume/high pressure pumps were not required for street  engines.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

4/19/2021 7:26 PM  #6


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Thinking I was done, the intake has been installed.  If swapping rocker positions does not change anything, checking lifters is next.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/19/2021 7:32 PM  #7


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Try swapping push rods as well.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

4/19/2021 7:34 PM  #8


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Pushrods new and verified clear line-of-sight through them


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/19/2021 7:36 PM  #9


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Only thing I can think of is maybe the oil hole in the rocker s oversized, but what is the chance of that?   What, in a lifter, could cause it to just free-flow oil in mass volume?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/19/2021 8:22 PM  #10


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Sounds familiar to my situation when I was going through my engine. One of the things I thought was my problem was the amount of oil that was coming out of the lifter bores when cranking the oil pump. I tried 3 different lifters because of the placement of the holes in it for the oil to flow through. I ended up using the Comp cam lifters to go with the cam because the holes were lower in the body of the lifter. Although the Ford lifters looked sturdier the Comp lifters looked more like the ones you had that broke in your engine. 


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

4/19/2021 9:22 PM  #11


Re: Priming new engine with oil

HudginJ3 wrote:

Sounds familiar to my situation when I was going through my engine. One of the things I thought was my problem was the amount of oil that was coming out of the lifter bores when cranking the oil pump. I tried 3 different lifters because of the placement of the holes in it for the oil to flow through. I ended up using the Comp cam lifters to go with the cam because the holes were lower in the body of the lifter. Although the Ford lifters looked sturdier the Comp lifters looked more like the ones you had that broke in your engine. 

But you were trying to run Ford roller lifters in a non-roller block, which is an impossibility.  This is an F4TE roller cam block designed for Ford roller lifters.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/20/2021 4:51 AM  #12


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Inside lifter is a check ball, spring, disc with a hole, and then retainer.

Either wrong sized ball, bad spring, something stuck, or bad seat for check ball.
Perhaps incorrect hole size in disc.
Perhaps debris stuck in lifter.

This was on regular hydraulic lifter in 289.
Yes, I took one apart years ago out of curiosity.

Last edited by Nos681 (4/20/2021 4:55 AM)

 

4/20/2021 6:09 AM  #13


Re: Priming new engine with oil

I would spray the pushrods out with Brake Kleen and compressed air and make 100% sure there is nothing in there.  I've found shavings in them before that weren't immediately apparent, but when pressurized oil was put through them could occlude or partially occlude the passage. 

I'd also verify that the rocker oil passages are clear the same way. 

Then look at swapping rockers around.  After that I'd probably start pulling lifters and carefully disassembling them and looking for trash. 
 

 

4/20/2021 9:00 AM  #14


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Looks like I get to go pull the intake.   GRRRRRRRR  If this turns out to be a lifter issue, these will be the last Ford lifters I ever use.   One had catastrophic failure on my 427 stroker.  I do not need this type of aggravation.

I have some used 100,000 mile lifters I just pulled from a 5.0.  I think I will swap one of those in place of the free-flowing ones to see if it cures the problem.  If it does, I will get new lifters and start over.   I cannot imagine the free-flow is caused by a rocker arm orifice, but that is easy enough to visually verify, once removed. 


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/20/2021 9:10 AM  #15


Re: Priming new engine with oil

And I thought I was the only one with engine problems . When we primed up my 289 the 3-4 times I had it apart just recently I too had the rear ones flowing mass oil. This last time the #5 cylinder had no oil after 30 minutes. So I went to O Rylie's and bought 2 Mildon lifters and in less than 30 sec I had oil moving on #5. That was 4 total bad lifters in my fresh rebuild. I don't know what brand they were but all is good now. Here is a question though. The soft plug in the rear leaked a lot of oil when I started to prime. Is that normal? 


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

4/20/2021 9:15 AM  #16


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Cab4word67 wrote:

And I thought I was the only one with engine problems . When we primed up my 289 the 3-4 times I had it apart just recently I too had the rear ones flowing mass oil. This last time the #5 cylinder had no oil after 30 minutes. So I went to O Rylie's and bought 2 Mildon lifters and in less than 30 sec I had oil moving on #5. That was 4 total bad lifters in my fresh rebuild. I don't know what brand they were but all is good now. Here is a question though. The soft plug in the rear leaked a lot of oil when I started to prime. Is that normal? 

You mean the round plug at the end of the cam?  There should be ZERO LEAKAGE at any external plug or seal.  If it leaks then, you can be assured it will leak profusely when running.

Thanks for your reply about the lifters flowing too much.  Glad to hear I am not the first it has happened to, and glad to hear your lifter replacement fixed the issue!  Now I am fairly certain what I have to do.
 


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/20/2021 10:30 AM  #17


Re: Priming new engine with oil

I'd be interested if swapping lifters fixes it, if indeed there's anything wrong. I have to admit when I installed my 427w I pre-oiled it, but did it with the VCs on! I only shined a light in the oil fill hole to ensure that I saw oil.

Googling this seems to find a lot of people with similar observations. Some have fired the motor anyway and said it took a bit for all rockers to have the same flow. 

I am in NO WAY condoning starting the engine up as I would have the exact same concerns if I were you.

 

4/20/2021 11:38 AM  #18


Re: Priming new engine with oil

 

4/20/2021 11:57 AM  #19


Re: Priming new engine with oil

MS wrote:

Brand new 408 stroker. Ford roller lifters. Comp Cams roller rockers. One rocker on 1-4 bank and one on the 5-8 bank flow oil like a river. The remaining 14 have normal to less than normal flow. High volume pump turned 1,000 rpm with power drill. I have never seen this occur before. Next step is to relocate the two free-flowing rockers to try and see if the flow goes with the rockers or if it stays with the free-flowing lifters. I have rotated the crank several times and resumed pumping at various points of crank rotation with no change in flow. It does same whether that lifter is on base circle or max lift.

All new parts. Engine has not been fired.

My concern is the max flow from the two rockers might be bleeding pressure that could be put to better use at the bottom end.

All rockers carefully adjusted with zero lash plus 1/2 turn.

Very strange!

Ideas?

What you putting it in?.....i want a 331 to put in mine.
 


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

4/20/2021 3:30 PM  #20


Re: Priming new engine with oil

MS wrote:

Looks like I get to go pull the intake.   GRRRRRRRR  If this turns out to be a lifter issue, these will be the last Ford lifters I ever use.   One had catastrophic failure on my 427 stroker.  I do not need this type of aggravation.

I have some used 100,000 mile lifters I just pulled from a 5.0.  I think I will swap one of those in place of the free-flowing ones to see if it cures the problem.  If it does, I will get new lifters and start over.   I cannot imagine the free-flow is caused by a rocker arm orifice, but that is easy enough to visually verify, once removed. 

I used the Ford lifters for years, but the last set I bought for my 331 just didn't look like they were very high quality.  They had all kinds of nicks in the surfaces, and the packaging had fallen apart in the bigger box Summit put it in.  I sent them back for replacements, and those showed up in the same state.  So I exchanged them for a set of Comp Cams 87716 lifters and they were MUCH better in both appearance and packaging.  At $235, considerably more than the Ford ones, but my confidence in them is MUCH higher. 
 

 

4/20/2021 4:42 PM  #21


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Update:
Replaced the two lifters with some old used ones.  Upon pressurization, oil pumped through all 16 at nearly the same rate.  So, I marked the two offenders with red marker and pulled all of them to be returned to Summit.  I ordered a set of Comp Cams lifters ls to replace them.  The Comp lifters look to have a CD stronger support for the roller, which is where the one on my 427 failed.

Will update again once I install the new lifters and again prime the system.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/20/2021 4:44 PM  #22


Re: Priming new engine with oil

The engine is going in Al McGee’s 65 fastback.  Come to the bash and check it out.

This is a perfect example of why you must check EVERYTHING when assembling an engine.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

4/20/2021 4:59 PM  #23


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Glad  you got it figured out, Steve.  Were those the Ford High Perf. lifters like you had in your 427?  That's what I have and they seem to be okay but I hate hearing horror stories.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

4/20/2021 5:05 PM  #24


Re: Priming new engine with oil

Well............glad you zeroed-in on the  bad lifters.
Brand new........FoMoCo replacement lifters at that and two are junk right outta the box!
Guess the little 8 year old chinaman messed up, oh well ! He ain't losing his job so no big deal for him.
Another web site was complaining abut even name brand lifters are the same quality as what you got.
Glad it will be ready for the bash!!!!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

4/20/2021 5:44 PM  #25


Re: Priming new engine with oil

They are the high performance version of Ford roller lifters from FRPP.

I have another 5.0 to build next and already have a set of new standard Ford roller lifters to use.  Wish me luck!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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