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  •  » Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

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    6/14/2021 8:25 AM  #1

    Gaba
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    Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Engine is out and is down to short block .. Thanks to Paul May (Prof) and Al Mcgee

    Oil contamination symptoms can be seen everywhere, like main bearings, Cam, lifters etc.

    The only place that is obvious where contamination could be coming from is the cam bearings. First cam bearing is almost all gone. the cam does not spin smooth as glass

    Atleast two cylinders were not firing well. Those two sparkplugs also  just fell apart in the spark plug socket when taken out.
    The driver and passenger side banks were definitely not burning evenly.

    Flex plate bolt imprints on the torque converter . wierd.

    1/3rd of the harmonic balancer was scrubbing the timing chain cover / water pump.. wierd.

    Still to disassemble the rod bearings and thrust. But its on the engine stand now ready for that. Possibly today.

    Pics to follow.
     

    Last edited by Gaba (6/14/2021 8:31 AM)

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     

    6/14/2021 8:31 AM  #2

    Rudi
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Sorry for not remembering  previous posts but where did this engine come from?

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    6/14/2021 8:32 AM  #3

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Rudi .. I built it .

    started as a 92 mustang HO  5.0 XXX block . and got machined  (by Wayne Calvert engines in DFW) and built as a 347 by me
    Full roller, aluminum Edlebrock performer heads. scat 347 kit balanced at the machine shop.Block was Line honed, bored,  clearanced , and cam bearings done by the machine shop

    Last edited by Gaba (6/14/2021 8:35 AM)

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/14/2021 9:36 AM  #4

    MS
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Don’t forget about the most important engine assembly procedure used.

    Park the incomplete assembly near workbench. Use angle grinder to distribute grinding dust all over the shop.

    Just sayin’…  might not be the cause, but…

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    6/14/2021 12:50 PM  #5

    Prof
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Gaba’s 66 Mustang: 
    https://boss302.smugmug.com/Cars/Boss302/n-mRHPn/i-VqGHphD

    MSteve Bash Shirt as work shirt:
    https://boss302.smugmug.com/Cars/Boss302/n-mRHPn/i-WRkfBZq

    Difference in two sides of engine:
    https://boss302.smugmug.com/Cars/Boss302/n-mRHPn/i-qbQTSZg

    Cam Bearings: 
    https://boss302.smugmug.com/Cars/Boss302/n-mRHPn/i-gGTcCgQ/A

     

    Last edited by Prof (6/14/2021 1:32 PM)

     

    6/14/2021 2:44 PM  #6

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Some closeups of the Main bearings surface
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1fkc0v5dswc1k8/image.jpg?dl=0

    Thrust bearing #3 side
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmnygsasml35h0g/image_1.jpg?dl=0

    Pistons . All of them look identical as far as rings and skirt is concerned
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9jkff5lrvycdhf/image_2.jpg?dl=0

    The ones that were burning look like this:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/g2twljk973cyuis/image_3.jpg?dl=0

    Here is the skirt
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/366dkso0v72no4y/image_4.jpg?dl=0

    Cam Bearings : Almost completely gone all 5

    In this first image also note the cyinder walls.. shiny where the rings mated, and still rough where they didnt.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhhxfqlyd1gjo0f/image_5.jpg?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/22yijmgc2mxs5c5/image_6.jpg?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/uiflqw0itea3pgc/image_7.jpg?dl=0

    All main bearings with their numbers
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xgo5lyyeorrn55/image_8.jpg?dl=0

    All Rod Bearings: 1 O (outer) , 1 I (inner) , 2O/2I , 3O 3I etc

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/korb8hk51kkqvkc/AAAYY8LEmsOHMP5E8svilq5ca?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xo99zurcw2su2bl/image_10.jpg?dl=0

     

    Last edited by Gaba (6/14/2021 2:55 PM)

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/14/2021 2:56 PM  #7

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Prof wrote:

    Gaba’s 65Mustang: 
    https://boss302.smugmug.com/Cars/Boss302/n-mRHPn/i-VqGHphD
     

    Correction 65 mustang! and thanks for the pics Prof!

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/14/2021 6:23 PM  #8

    Prof
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Tough one, sir. I’m not sure what I would do. So much bearing wear for a new motor @ 1,000 miles

     

    6/14/2021 6:28 PM  #9

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Would it be because of the cam bearing material floating in the oil causing more than normal wear?

    I don’t see much else wrong with the motor

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/14/2021 7:27 PM  #10

    josh-kebob
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    What kind of material was in the bottom of the oil pan?

     

    6/14/2021 7:38 PM  #11

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Babbit mostly . On all oil changes . Never magnetic stuff shiny non magnetic

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/14/2021 8:06 PM  #12

    Rudi
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    What kind of assembly lube was used?
    Was the oil pump spun prior to start up?
    Does not look like any bearings delaminated but more like some kind of grit scored all the bearings.
    Very sorry for ya bud, that’s a hard one to eat.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    6/14/2021 10:15 PM  #13

    6sally6
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Gaba wrote:

    Would it be because of the cam bearing material floating in the oil causing more than normal wear?

    I don’t see much else wrong with the motor

    THIS   ^^^ gets my vote! 
    Calvert wanna talk about "maybe" they installed the cam bearings worng?
    The fix???.....Tear it all the way down ...remove oil galley plugs...get after it with soapy water...brushes and brakleen (I love this stuff!)
    Soapy wash...brush-uh brush-uh..rinse...Brakleen..wipe with lacquer thinner til NO residue....wipe down inside with A/T fluid....(collect $$$ from Wayne Calvert  ) Have cam bearings installed....new bearings through out....Wire brush burnt piston tops and clean really well...spin stuff as you put it together to make sure it is smooth and free.....
    Seriously....I think you have a good argument against Calvert about the cam bearings. YOU did install the cam but.......he don't want the bad  publicity.
    6sal6
     

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/15/2021 5:04 AM  #14

    TKOPerformance
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Obviously there was an issue with oil contamination.The grooves in the main bearings came from something hard.  My guess is there was some slag/trash in one of the oil passages.  That was not caused by the top layer of the cam bearings coming off.  That material is not hard enough to do that.

    I don't know how many miles were on it, so I can't say whether or not the piston tops are normal or concerning, but that does look like oil contamination.  That could be caused by a lot of different things.  It not being equal in all cylinders to me would suggest that the issue is cylinder specific (i.e. blowby in those cylinders).  How were the pistons installed?

     

    6/15/2021 6:01 AM  #15

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Tko

    Pistons were installed by me . Miles less than 1000 or max a 1000..

    Do you see any issues with the crosshatch that was put on cylinder walls? It was quite rough, which was then smoothed out by the rings. I can try posting some more pics of the cylinder walls here . They all have symmetrical wear by the piston skirts.. and this cross hatch pattern that would possibly , don’t mind my ignorance, “rub off” and cause a lot of debris in the motor

    Notice that in the pic I posted of the cam bearings too.

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/15/2021 6:04 AM  #16

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Here. The smooth area is very smooth and reflective . Nail does not catch the lines at all.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/mndapmc2al7syop/Photo%20Jun%2014%2C%2010%2019%2034%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/onj8ngzpqou9jqb/Photo%20Jun%2014%2C%2010%2019%2040%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxyp9eiay4l9ldj/Photo%20Jun%2014%2C%2010%2019%2044%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3s73s1txb7i1zs/Photo%20Jun%2014%2C%2010%2019%2053%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
       •Thread Starter
     

    6/15/2021 6:48 AM  #17

    josh-kebob
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Gaba, in a previous post, I asked what distributor you used. Want to see if your distributor had a gear that was compatable with your cam. If not, the gear will shed metal material and wreak havoc with engine internals. So, what does you distrib gear look like?

     

    6/15/2021 7:02 AM  #18

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Distributor gear looked perfect. I dont have a pic , but I will take one and post it.

    It was the correct gear for the cam.

    Msd distributor with steel gear — for a 5.0

    Last edited by Gaba (6/15/2021 7:08 AM)

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/15/2021 7:28 AM  #19

    josh-kebob
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Thanks. I was just trying to identify or eliminate sources of metal contamination for you.

     

    6/15/2021 7:48 AM  #20

    TKOPerformance
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Did they bore and hone the bores, or just hone them? 

     

    6/15/2021 8:20 AM  #21

    red351
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Thrust bearing, damper rub, and bolt marks would be the key thing to start with....

    Last edited by red351 (6/15/2021 8:22 AM)

     

    6/15/2021 8:22 AM  #22

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    Did they bore and hone the bores, or just hone them? 

     
    Bore and hone ..

    I cleaned the darn block with a pressure washer , dawn detergent and water . I scrubbed till my hands hurt and pushed water through every hole I saw

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
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    6/15/2021 8:40 AM  #23

    Raymond_B
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Did Calvert vat the block? Were the heads cleaned up prior to assembly? Not criticizing so please don't take this wrong, but that thing is filthy.

     

    6/15/2021 8:41 AM  #24

    Rudi
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Just another point of elimination.
    I have heard of rare cases of swarf in Eagle cranks oil passageways but not so in Scat’s, do know if the crank was cleaned out?
    Regardless when  I did my 331 the Scat crank was thoroughly gone over to ensure no machining residue was present.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    6/15/2021 8:45 AM  #25

    Gaba
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    Re: Gaba's 347 stroker build -- Try 2

    Raymond_B wrote:

    Did Calvert vat the block? Were the heads cleaned up prior to assembly? Not criticizing so please don't take this wrong, but that thing is filthy.

     
    Raymond::

    Heads were new.. I cleaned as much as I could. 

    Pretty sure it was vat-ed

    Rudi: all short block stuff was cleaned with brake clean before assembly

    If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
       •Thread Starter
     

     

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