josh-kebob wrote:

Welcome back. Although at this point I can't offer any answers to your questions, I know others will chime in to help soonest.

FWIW, that pic of your car motivates me to go out in the shop and wrench on mine.

And speaking of pics, share how you posted that pic on this forum.

Thanks.  Yeah, I'm sure folks here know the best answers to all my questions.  I've poked around and read some.  The power steering post was somewhat informative but not sure it gets me all the way there.

I just posted it on PostImage.  It doesn't let me create an account so I don't know where the images will end up over time.

Yep, the interior is pretty much out.  I initially started on a repaint and get it running mission, then diverted to the "resto-mod" route.  That's why the bumpers are off, fenders are loose, etc.  Under dash stuff is definitely getting done before paint and interior.  Once I get the non-fun stuff done I will go pretty fast on finishing it. 

I'm in Waterloo Iowa.  Guess I should add a profile pic too.  

The original harness is un-modified.  I got the car from my aunt/uncle from a field in Missouri in 1981 where it had been sitting since 1977 after coming from California.  Other than having the smog pump and a/c compressor removed it was basically unmolested.  I never drilled a hole or modified anything on the car that would keep it from going back to 100% stock but now none of that matters LOL.  I already have the harness because the wiring even in 2007 had very brittle insulation.  It still works, but might as well replace it if everything else is getting replaced.  I will be using aftermarket gauges so will need to be able to work with flexible wires.

So what is the word on rack/pinion setup?  Is there something out there to make the Randall's usable or just scrap it?

Dennis wrote:

So what is the word on rack/pinion setup?  Is there something out there to make the Randall's usable or just scrap it?

I don't know anything about the Randall Rack but feel the Borgeson PS is a good and easy solution for steering upgrade,
 

I'm in the final stages of adding EPAS to my 66. Still using the stock box and added a EPAS from a Toyota Yaris using the method posted by Waid. It was a fun project and really cleans up the underhood area. Next I'm adding A/C
https://www.therangerstation.com/tech/toyota-electric-power-steering-eps-conversion/
I'm waiting on a adjustable pot kit from ebay to make the amount of assist adjustable. I've driven it some and the assist level is acceptable. The return to center is lacking but I did replace all of the steering linkage and the toe is probably off some. 

Thanks guys.  I'm inclined to buy something ready to go.  I've done lots of making stuff work on my own for the bikes, and honestly I'm ready for some easy bolt-on and go stuff.  I will research EPAS setups for my application.  Or maybe I'll get something to work with the Randalls, but I might just give that setup to my nephew and let him figure it out on his car.

MS wrote:

The EPAS does not address the issue of having a worn or slow ratio (terrible with power assist) steering box. My vote is Borgeson. It is the new GO-TO for steering improvement.

That is still the old steering gear type box though, right?  I've already pulled all the stock stuff out and am thinking rack/pinion is the way to get the best feel.  Am I missing something?  

I have had the Borgeson system in my 66 Coupe for about 5 years and the car handles fine with no issues. It was an easy install but I do recommend the MS lower bearing in the column instead of the bushing in the kit.
Welcome back to the Forum!

Last edited by BobC (8/08/2021 5:45 AM)

MS wrote:

I have had a Total Control power R&P in my 66 since 2005. It needs a new bellow on one side but works fine.
I will be installing a Borgeson on my 69 soon. It is s newer design box with alot tighter ratio than the old Mustang box. I woll be installing one on my neighbor’s 65 fastback soon. It is the way to go.

I will check it out. How does the feel compare to R&P?  When I think about how revolutionary R&P felt in any Fox vehicle (even our old 78 Fairmont) it leads me that direction.

TKOPerformance wrote:

The old systems were not abandoned because they didn't work or lacked feel.  They were abandoned to save cost and reduce space in newer platforms.  I have the Borgerson in my '67 and its a good system.  Responsive and tight with good feedback.  I had to lower the amount of assist to keep it from jumping off center the instant I touched the wheel.  This required buying a kit from Borgeson.  The supplied steering column base mount was extremely Mickey Mouse, so I made my own.  The steering column lower bearing was equally Mickey Mouse, so I used the Mustang Steve setup.  The steering box hit my JBA headers and required me to dimple on of the tubes to clear.  The pump mount is also pretty Mickey Mouse and flexes a lot.  I'm converting to Fox Mustang accessory drive and that should correct both that and my intermittent alternator squeal on startup.  You are going to need somewhere around 3-3.5 degrees of positive caster to get acceptable return to center and remove squirreliness from the steering.  This will require the Shelby/Arning drop, which most guys don't mention because its the first thing they did to the front end (as it should  be). 

So here's my overall take on the Borgeson system.  MUCH better than stock.  A decent way to get power steering in a manual steer car.  Not exactly a bolt in though.  I suggested EPAS because there's no box interference with headers, the amount of assist is more easily adjustable, and there's no pump or lines.  If I had to do it again this is what I would do.  Not knocking Borgeson, just giving you the straight skinny on my experience with it.  I wasn't over or under whelmed with it.  Basically it was what I expected and it required the typical amount of work not in the instructions that adding anything of this magnitude to a classic car typically requires. 

I followed everything until "Not knocking Borgeson".  With the borgeson I would still use EPAS, correct?  It just eliminates the PS pump.  I did the Shelby Drop when I put in the new suspension.  I also found a crack in the shock tower which I fixed.
 

I installed the R&C MII front suspension with R&P power steering in 2011.  The kit came with a Borgeson pump.  In 2016 I added a Vintage A/C package.  This package was ordered with the ability to adapt the Borgeson pump.  I've had no isses with this PS-A/C setup. 

Dennis wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

The old systems were not abandoned because they didn't work or lacked feel.  They were abandoned to save cost and reduce space in newer platforms.  I have the Borgerson in my '67 and its a good system.  Responsive and tight with good feedback.  I had to lower the amount of assist to keep it from jumping off center the instant I touched the wheel.  This required buying a kit from Borgeson.  The supplied steering column base mount was extremely Mickey Mouse, so I made my own.  The steering column lower bearing was equally Mickey Mouse, so I used the Mustang Steve setup.  The steering box hit my JBA headers and required me to dimple on of the tubes to clear.  The pump mount is also pretty Mickey Mouse and flexes a lot.  I'm converting to Fox Mustang accessory drive and that should correct both that and my intermittent alternator squeal on startup.  You are going to need somewhere around 3-3.5 degrees of positive caster to get acceptable return to center and remove squirreliness from the steering.  This will require the Shelby/Arning drop, which most guys don't mention because its the first thing they did to the front end (as it should  be). 

So here's my overall take on the Borgeson system.  MUCH better than stock.  A decent way to get power steering in a manual steer car.  Not exactly a bolt in though.  I suggested EPAS because there's no box interference with headers, the amount of assist is more easily adjustable, and there's no pump or lines.  If I had to do it again this is what I would do.  Not knocking Borgeson, just giving you the straight skinny on my experience with it.  I wasn't over or under whelmed with it.  Basically it was what I expected and it required the typical amount of work not in the instructions that adding anything of this magnitude to a classic car typically requires. 

I followed everything until "Not knocking Borgeson".  With the borgeson I would still use EPAS, correct?  It just eliminates the PS pump.  I did the Shelby Drop when I put in the new suspension.  I also found a crack in the shock tower which I fixed.
 

 The borgeson box is an integral power steering box so no EPAS would be used. It requires a hydraulic power steering pump.  If you want EPAS, you will need a rebuilt quick ratio manual type Mustang box, or a new Flaming River copy, or a manual R&P, or figure out how to retrofit a newer type EPAS R&P into the car.

The borgeson is pretty simple bolt in, with a few gotchas TKO mentioned, that are not hard to overcome. Basically, it just simplifies everything for a pretty reasonable cost and works quite well.

Borgeson typically comes with a new steering shaft (not column, just shaft) that has splines at bottom for borgeson rag joint.