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8/05/2022 8:38 AM  #1


Borgeson upgrade

Hi all,
I am in the middle of the Borgeson power steering upgrade. I already had PS, but leaking badly. I have a 65 fastback, 302 motor, etc. I have read concerns about the shaft pulling out of the rag joint since it's only held together by a few set screws. Didn't realize that til i started investigating install instructions. So the MustangSteve lower bearing is supposed to address this issue, correct? If so, are those still being designed and sold? I am not sure about the U-joints and don't weld. So just looking for simple solution that corrects this concern.

thanks much!
 

 

8/05/2022 8:52 AM  #2


Re: Borgeson upgrade

I can't help since my 66 uses a 68 column on the Borgesen box but I want to welcome you to the best place on the web, hope you stick around.  I'm sure MS will chime in here soon and answer your question.
BB1
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

8/05/2022 9:58 AM  #3


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Welcome  6T5klassic !     ( I like your screen name BTW!)
Lotsa good guyz on here with LOTSA years of seat time in Mustangs!!
Where are you located ?!
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/05/2022 12:37 PM  #4


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Google, borgeson installation video.
CJPony has a detailed video which addresses your set screw concern...

 

8/08/2022 12:00 PM  #5


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Adding the MustangSteve bearing kit acts to make the shaft more stable about its centerline and eases the rotational effort.  It does nothing to improve the setscrews issue, if there is one.  I have installed several borgesons and currently have one on my 69.  The key to making the setscrews stay tight is to follow the directions that come with the box.  

Tighten the screw into the splined shaft.  That leaves a mark in the splines.  Then remove the fitting and grind the marked area flat, with the flat plane normal to the centeline of the setscrew.  Then reassemble and tighten the setscrews to MustangSteve max torque setting.  The nature of the end of the setscrews and the nice flat surface lets them tighten up and they will remain so.

I have not seen any come loose that I have installed using that method.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/08/2022 3:27 PM  #6


Re: Borgeson upgrade

IMO Borgeson is not an upgrade, it’s an alternative.
It will cost you about the same as getting the O/E system rebuilt by Dan at
<chockostangclassicmustang.com>
Dan has rebuilt hundreds if not thousands of Ford power steering systems.
I wouldn’t do anything without speaking with him.
Dans  # 1 217 882 2083


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/08/2022 6:59 PM  #7


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Borgeson is definitely an upgrade, in my opinion. Swap eight hoses for two. Eliminate a separate ram piston and a reaction valve. Get rid  of fifty plus years of worn out steering box. Use a more modern pump.
Improved steering ratio.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/08/2022 7:17 PM  #8


Re: Borgeson upgrade

MS wrote:

Borgeson is definitely an upgrade, in my opinion. Swap eight hoses for two. Eliminate a separate ram piston and a reaction valve. Get rid of fifty plus years of worn out steering box. Use a more modern pump.
Improved steering ratio.

Agreed.
Is switching to electric steering considered an alternative or an upgrade?.

 

8/08/2022 8:24 PM  #9


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Electric steering is pretty cool but you have to change steering box on top of the expense of the EPAS. Or deal with an old box and the ratio it has.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/09/2022 5:35 AM  #10


Re: Borgeson upgrade

MS wrote:

Borgeson is definitely an upgrade, in my opinion. Swap eight hoses for two. Eliminate a separate ram piston and a reaction valve. Get rid of fifty plus years of worn out steering box. Use a more modern pump.
Improved steering ratio.

Absolutely agree.  In fact I kept my car manual steering for close to 2 decades because after driving a car with factory PS I was so disappointed that I had no desire to install it in my car (despite having everything to make that swap).  The feel is WAY too light, because that was how PS was in the 50s and 60s.  They wanted an old lady to be able to steer with one finger.  Its a lot more complicated as MS said, so more stuff to wear out, leak, etc. 

Last edited by TKOPerformance (8/10/2022 5:26 AM)

 

8/09/2022 9:05 AM  #11


Re: Borgeson upgrade

TKOPerformance wrote:

MS wrote:

Borgeson is definitely an upgrade, in my opinion. Swap eight hoses for two. Eliminate a separate ram piston and a reaction valve. Get rid of fifty plus years of worn out steering box. Use a more modern pump.
Improved steering ratio.

Absolutely agree.  In fact I kept my car manual steering for close to 2 decades because after driving a car with factory PS O was so disappointed that I had no desire to install it in my car (despite having everything to make that swap).  The feel is WAY too light, because that was how PS was in the 50s and 60s.  They wanted an old lady to be able to steer with one finger.  Its a lot more complicated as MS said, so more stuff to wear out, leak, etc. 

And, NOW, I can steer my 69 coupe with one finger. But it sure feels better than any factory type setup I have ever driven.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/09/2022 4:29 PM  #12


Re: Borgeson upgrade

MS wrote:

Borgeson is definitely an upgrade, in my opinion. Swap eight hoses for two. Eliminate a separate ram piston and a reaction valve. Get rid of fifty plus years of worn out steering box. Use a more modern pump.
Improved steering ratio.

I also agree.  Borgeson is a definite upgrade. I've been running mine for 12 years with no issues.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

8/09/2022 4:50 PM  #13


Re: Borgeson upgrade

wow what a tremendous response to my query! This is great!

I am in Baltimore County, MD. I did watch the CJPP video and seen where they file down the shaft for the set screw, but still didn't think that was adequate. I did end up ordering the MS lower bearing for added security, but i have to work on it under the car (quickjack). I will have to remove quite a bit if I tried to get to it from above, and I hope I don't have to do that. I ended up cutting the shaft without issue to get the steering box out. Just not sure I can finish the job 100% from under the car.
I currently have PS, but leaking badly. Considered EPAS but got the Borgeson and new pump as well. Looking forward to cruising without the worry of leaks (at least for the power steering).

Getting hard to locate folks in driving distance willing to take classic mustang work. Alot of chevy shops around, and those that will work on Mustang are too booked to take new work. Anyone know of reputable shops in reasonable distance away, please let me know.
My next job after this one is the TKX 5-speed, and that is beyond my skillset. Looking at Silver Sport Transmissions for that kit.


 

     Thread Starter
 

8/10/2022 5:31 AM  #14


Re: Borgeson upgrade

My neighbor might be willing to do it.  I'd offer if my lift wasn't currently tied up.  Not sure exactly where you are, but we are about an hour and a half from the city of Baltimore. 

 

8/10/2022 12:31 PM  #15


Re: Borgeson upgrade

As you’re in Baltimore County, each Saturday morning, 8-10am, at the Hunt Valley Towne Center, there is a car cruise where many different cars come.  I would think some of people at this cruise may be able to help with local shops that do this type of work.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

8/11/2022 11:22 AM  #16


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Great point and yes, that is a great meetup.

     Thread Starter
 

8/14/2022 7:25 PM  #17


Re: Borgeson upgrade

TKOPerformance wrote:

MS wrote:

Borgeson is definitely an upgrade, in my opinion. Swap eight hoses for two. Eliminate a separate ram piston and a reaction valve. Get rid of fifty plus years of worn out steering box. Use a more modern pump.
Improved steering ratio.

Absolutely agree.  In fact I kept my car manual steering for close to 2 decades because after driving a car with factory PS I was so disappointed that I had no desire to install it in my car (despite having everything to make that swap).  The feel is WAY too light, because that was how PS was in the 50s and 60s.  They wanted an old lady to be able to steer with one finger.  Its a lot more complicated as MS said, so more stuff to wear out, leak, etc. 

I am about ready to convert mine to manual steering .....I like the low speed around parking lots and such but going down the road i hate how sensitive it is. 
 


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

8/15/2022 3:30 PM  #18


Re: Borgeson upgrade

One thing to consider:
You liked the manual steering on your 66, but it had the manual steering ratio box. If you remove the power from your power steering box, it will require more effort than your 66 did.
It will be the same as a factory GT with manual steering. I am not saying that is bad, but it will be harder to steer at low speeds, and you aren’t getting any younger…
Borgeson is best of both worlds:  tighter ratio than your p/s quick ratio box and power assist that is not overboosted.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/15/2022 9:08 PM  #19


Re: Borgeson upgrade

MS wrote:

One thing to consider:
You liked the manual steering on your 66, but it had the manual steering ratio box. If you remove the power from your power steering box, it will require more effort than your 66 did.
It will be the same as a factory GT with manual steering. I am not saying that is bad, but it will be harder to steer at low speeds, and you aren’t getting any younger…
Borgeson is best of both worlds: tighter ratio than your p/s quick ratio box and power assist that is not overboosted.

My 66 had a power steering box cause it too started life off as a power steering car.....Chockostang use to post on here he sent me the stuff to convert and also bout all my power steering stuff from me paid all shipping too. 
 


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

8/15/2022 9:21 PM  #20


Re: Borgeson upgrade

I wonder if it would tame the easyness of my steering if I put a manual steering box and left the powersteering on it.


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

8/15/2022 9:31 PM  #21


Re: Borgeson upgrade

That would make it extremely light.  I wouldn't think that would have any "feel" at all.  The manual box is easier (slower) (higher ratio) than the PS box.  Sounds like what you are looking for is stock manual steering which uses the manual box, no assist.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

8/15/2022 10:38 PM  #22


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Anybody close to me with experience with installing Borgeson kit? 


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

8/16/2022 8:41 AM  #23


Re: Borgeson upgrade

My O/E PS worked perfectly for 15 years, it was totally leak free right till the time I took it out. When I got the car it had manual and I picked up a used O/E PS system and completely properly rebuilt it along with a new steering box. The original system is a very good set up, if you don’t believe me ask Dan Chock arguably the most knowledgeable guy on Ford systems.
I built the EPAS on a lark because it intrigued me and after it was installed I would never go back to a hydraulic system.
The great thing about my EPAS is the adjustability of the boost.
I can dial in one finger steering for parallel parking to almost no boost for manual like steering and feel at freeway speeds.
YMMV.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/16/2022 3:39 PM  #24


Re: Borgeson upgrade

Rudi wrote:

My O/E PS worked perfectly for 15 years, it was totally leak free right till the time I took it out. When I got the car it had manual and I picked up a used O/E PS system and completely properly rebuilt it along with a new steering box. The original system is a very good set up, if you don’t believe me ask Dan Chock arguably the most knowledgeable guy on Ford systems.
I built the EPAS on a lark because it intrigued me and after it was installed I would never go back to a hydraulic system.
The great thing about my EPAS is the adjustability of the boost.
I can dial in one finger steering for parallel parking to almost no boost for manual like steering and feel at freeway speeds.
YMMV.

What brand and was it hard to install Rudi?
 


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

8/16/2022 5:28 PM  #25


Re: Borgeson upgrade

The way I did it would be difficult for those who don’t have the mechanical skills and the machine tools, I modified a Pontiac Vue EPAS unit.
There are commercially available units but from what I have seen they also need some fabrication skills.
At this time I have not seen any “plug and play” systems, maybe in the future.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

Board footera


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