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11/08/2022 7:56 PM  #1


AOD mods?

Can someone explain the difference in lock up and non-lock up?   Wanting to get AOD in the 65’ for friendly hwy cruising.   Eng. will not be more than 400hp.  But I do want strong parts that will not fail.  Spirited driving mostly.  No racing.  Rear gear will be 8” with 3.50 ratio.

I’m getting lost on the hardened one piece input shaft?  Is there a 2 piece shaft?  I also came across one that said it was hollow.  Wouldn’t that be weaker?

 

11/08/2022 9:08 PM  #2


Re: AOD mods?

Most A/T ...even when in high gear have a certain amount of slippage in the converter.
Just the way they were designed.
That's one reason why when doing any kind of "modifications" to these trannys a larger transmission cooler is recommended...
to cool the fluid because there will be increased slippage.

New(er) transmisions have a lock-up converter. It was done to help improve MPG. eliminate slippage should= more MPG.

Now....most (all?!) A/t's have lock-up converters AND OD gears for highway driving for even better MPG!

Can't help about the input shaft question.
I DO have an A/T in my lil parts chaser 91 S-10. It has a lock-up converter and OD. It's pretty primitive by today's standards.
I had it re-built a while back and had a Corvette servo valve installed instead of the stock one. Also had a shift kit installed to firmer shifts. (still barks the tires when shifting into 2nd gear!)
I WISH I had modified the governor while it was apart. By lightening it....the shifts from first to second are extended.
Now...it shifts from first to second at aprox. 15 MPH.! (oe less)
I'm sure that was GM's attempt at increasing MPG by going into high gear as quickly as possible. it tends to lug the engine slightly at low RPM's.
FoMoCo prolly did the same thing to their version of AOD's. I would take a look at that while yours is apart.
For "spirited" driving you would want a 1-2 shift to occur about  20-25 mph.
2-3 shifts don't have to be stretched out because you are already spinning the engine at a higher RPM.,,,, 30+ MPH!?!

My guess would be...(about the input shaft)....since your rear tire size will be limited with a 65/66 Mustang...the tires will break loose before your input shaft!!
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

11/08/2022 10:10 PM  #3


Re: AOD mods?

https://www.becontrols.com/techguide.shtml

Baumann has a $hit ton of info on the AOD, and other trannies. The lock up Jenner goes to 1:1, a non lock up slips.

When I built my 86 AOD I used a hardened O.D. input shaft, a late model output shaft for better oiling, Kolene steels, Alto red friction clutches, and an A overdrive servo.

I've forgotten a bunch about the AOD since I built mine, but hopefully Bullet Bob will jump in and advise us on his info.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

11/09/2022 6:03 AM  #4


Re: AOD mods?

Lockup converters serve two functions:
1.) Eliminate slip at cruising speeds to improve mileage.
2.) Eliminate slip at cruising speeds to reduce heat generation from slip.

Lockup converters are typically more expensive as they are more complicated.  If your cruise RPM is above the converter's stall speed there's no point in it being a lockup because at the stall speed the converter IS locked.

The two piece input shaft is viewed as weak.  I've heard people say the stock one can take 450HP.  I've heard others say 600HP.  My guess is its like any other drivetrain part.  One guy has a stock one behind a 800HP engine, another breaks hardened one piece shafts behind a 400HP engine.  It'll break when it breaks.  If you are planning real power I think its worth considering, but there are also hardened two piece shafts available. 

The issue with the one piece shaft is it eliminates the converter lockup feature.  So if you want the lockup you are tied to the two piece design.  Racers don't care about lockup because the car never cruises.  Street/strip guys often try to retain lockup, and most street only guys are going to want lockup. 
 

 

11/09/2022 9:57 AM  #5


Re: AOD mods?

Just to 'splain the two-piece shaft in an AOD:
AOD was Ford's first OD Autobox.  To achieve lockup in OD they used a hollow input shaft that is driven by the Torque converter just like a normal three speed automatic.  For lockup in OD they have a thinner, weaker shaft that runs through the center of the hollow input shaft and is driven by the torque converter shell, which is bolted to the flexplate.  This works well but is weaker than a one-piece input with a more modern clutch type lockup torque converter.
The mods that BB2 talked about would probably build a bullet proof (no pun intended) transmission for any street application.  Or....a stone stock AOD would probably take anything you are going to give it unless you are racing with really sticky tires.  I don't race and rarely get "spirited" but I have over 40K miles on the AOD I built with the good steels and Alto frictions.  I did not use a "hardened" OD input shaft.
If you decide to built your own and save a couple thousand $$ I have a tool kit with the clutch spring compressors and engine stand mount plus a good book that talks you through the process.  I have loaned this kit to others for the price of two-way shipping so you would be welcome to use it also.
For about the same $$ you could build a 4R70W which has a lockup torque converter, a wide ratio gear set, and is electronically controlled.  It's a way nicer trans to drive (I have had both in our car) but it requires a controller which adds $500 to $700 to the cost.
Good luck Oscar.

 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

11/12/2022 9:53 AM  #6


Re: AOD mods?

Thank you guys for all the good info.   The car has a 95’. Stock 5.0. Which I’m not sure it’s tuned to optimum performance.  It is carb’s with a 600 street Demon.  It doesn’t run like a pre-93 5.0. But that’s another story.

Basically, my point is, it’s a stock eng.  But I do want to have a good AOD, that won’t give me problems.  I had an AOD in a 79’ F100 decades ago and I remember the planetary gears going out after one year.  I just don’t want to go through that again.

BB, thanks for offering your tools, but I’m not a mechanic and Tranny’s are very intimidating to me.  Still trying to figure out that fuel sending unit!   Lol 😆

Last edited by Ozblitz (11/12/2022 7:34 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

11/12/2022 12:16 PM  #7


Re: AOD mods?

If stock, I would do a basic rebuild but put good steels and fractions in there. And since you're aware what a bad planetary can do, have your mechanic check it out good. When rebuilding my AOD I checked the planetary as per the Badshoe videos. Butt it failed just after returning from the Waco mini bash, which was catastrophic.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

11/12/2022 12:54 PM  #8


Re: AOD mods?

Ozblitz wrote:

Thank you guys for all the good info. The car has a 95’. Stock 5.0. Which I’m not sure it’s tuned to optimum performance. It is carb’s with a 600 street Demon. It doesn’t run like a pre-93 5.0. But that’s another story.

Basically, my point is, it’s a stock eng. But I do want to have a good AOD, that won’t give me problems. I had an AOD in a 79’ F100 decades ago and I remember the planetary gears going out after one year. I just want to go through that again.

BB, thanks for offering your tools, but I’m not a mechanic and Tranny’s are very intimidating to me. Still trying to figure out that fuel sending unit! Lol 😆

Was the AOD stock to that truck?  If so it must have been a very early model.  Most first gen ODs had issues the first couple years that were eventually corrected.  Source something from the late '80s and it should be fine. 
 

 

11/12/2022 1:27 PM  #9


Re: AOD mods?

FYI, the 4R70W was the AOD with all its shortcomings fixed, and has better gear ratios. It will bolt right up to a SBF. I suggest you do some reading and compare the two.

 

11/12/2022 6:38 PM  #10


Re: AOD mods?

Mach1Driver wrote:

FYI, the 4R70W was the AOD with all its shortcomings fixed, and has better gear ratios. It will bolt right up to a SBF. I suggest you do some reading and compare the two.

 
Ya, was thinking you already had an AOD. I'd surely recommend getting a 4R70W of you're starting from scratch.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

11/12/2022 7:31 PM  #11


Re: AOD mods?

TKO,  that 79’ truck did not come with AOD.  It was before AOD’s time.  I had it installed for better cruising and had a 3.50 gear.  If I recall correctly it was a 88’ mustang gt AOD.  I did have a peppy 351w in the truck but nothing crazy.  I believe it dyno’d at 220 rear wheel HP. 

I do have an late 80’s AOD on stand by ready to have rebuilt, that’s why I was asking about lock up converter and input shafts.

It sounds like I definitely need the lockup converter for cruising so, that means 2 piece shaft.

Last edited by Ozblitz (11/12/2022 7:42 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

11/12/2022 9:29 PM  #12


Re: AOD mods?

I refreshed an Aod to put in my Galaxie a while back.   

First I built a mount for it to that fit into an engine stand.   There used to be pictures on here but they've long since disappeared.   It was very similar to the one ultra stang made.   I probably have old pictures on my computer. 

As far as the transmission, I put in a Mr. Shift kit in the valve body.   Then I put in a Kevlar od band.  Then I put in the A servo, and there was another servo I replaced.  Think it was reverse.   They are both easy to get to.  You have to remove the pump to replace the od band.   I had bought a rebuild your aod DVD from somewhere that was a good guide.   The last thing I did was something to the govenor, but I don't remember what.   I do remember something about making sure the od band gets installed right, something about getting behind the servo pin, but overall it was easy.


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

11/13/2022 1:39 PM  #13


Re: AOD mods?

I built a 4r70w from a v6 98 stang. They can take a lot of abuse with just a little bit of new pieces inside. I used the US shift controller with a Transgo stage 2 kit and a some Sonnax upgrades, new servos etc. The v6 version has 1 less clutch/steel disc plate, just change the pressure plate and fit 1 or2 extra. It also have 3 instead of 4 on the intermedia clutch. I used Alto red clutches. That 4r70w worked like a charm and never failed.

 

Board footera


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