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  •  » Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

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    2/03/2023 2:53 PM  #1

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 4,885

    Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    "this" is a Ford EEC IV TFI or Hall Pick-up in the dizzy that is very sick but won't die.
    Well, it finally did but it apparently lingered for a long time.
    Story: When we left Vandalia last September it went through a gaging fit that I was sure was probably due to water in the fuel.  Then it straightened out and ran the thousand miles home with no problems.
    Then a while back it stumbled a bit and I thought, "gonna have to flush that tank" but it cleared up and ran great.
    Yesterday morning it did the same thing again on the way to breakfast but got over it and all was good.  After breakfast it took me one block and expired...ded, goin' nowhere.  While I waited for the Hagarty flatbed I swapped some relays and check some fuses but no joy.  This morning I checked fuel pressure okay and all voltages okay and then swapped in my spare loaded dizzy which fixed it.
    It's gotta be the Hall Pick-up or the TFI. I'll be testing further to find out but it really seems strange.
    Has anyone ever had one of those behave like that?  I did have a Hall sensor that would cause a very weak spark when hot but........?

    Oh and yeah MS, I know....If it had a pot on it nothing would ever fail.

    BB1
     

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    2/03/2023 3:44 PM  #2

    TimC
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    From: Wheaton, Illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 876

    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    BB,
    You did not mention if the ecm was throwing any codes.  A failing PIP sensor generally sets a code 14.

    Another gentleman in my subdivision with a nice foxbody told me to carry a spare TFI module in my glove box.  He has had 2 (original and a cheapo) fail in the 30 years he has owned his car.  He now has a Motorcraft TFI module installed and a cheap repop spare that goes where the car goes.

     

    2/03/2023 4:49 PM  #3

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    TimC wrote:

    BB,
    You did not mention if the ecm was throwing any codes.  A failing PIP sensor generally sets a code 14.

    No codes, Tim.  Or at least no CEL.  I'll dump codes tomorrow but it also did not set codes when the brand new POS Hall Effect sensor was dieing from heat.
    Thanks for the info.  Hope you folks are doing well.  Did you son ever get the HOT ROD Mustang on the road so he can bring it to the Bash?

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
       •Thread Starter
     

    2/03/2023 6:01 PM  #4

    Raymond_B
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    From: Fort Worth, TX
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    Definitely seen the TFI module behave like that, it's most common death throws are to run, get hot, die, cool off, run, get hot, die over and over until it flat gives up. The pick up can act that way, but it's usually more erratic. Depending on the age of the hardware swapping both is usually a good idea.

     

    2/03/2023 7:02 PM  #5

    Greg B
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    I once worked on a minivan that ran fine, it accerated fine, but you'd hit the brakes and it would sputter and die.   Then the side of the road it would start right back up again.  Rinse, repeat.   No one could figure it out so it got to me.

    Turned out it was a broken wire in the leads that came out of the distributor.   When it would brake, the movement caused wherever the break was to separate contact.   

    Just a short in a wire...

    If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
     

    2/03/2023 7:16 PM  #6

    MS
    Forum Originator

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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,241

    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    Great info.

    Exactly what this forum is all about.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    2/03/2023 9:29 PM  #7

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    Thanks guys.  I also got some good test info from Nos LT Dan.  This one seemed to be more prone to trouble when it was cold.  Every time it acted up it was wen the car was overnight cold or  just warming up.  Before Vandalia I built a spare Dizzy and test ran it.  Also made a special wrench for changing it and a special tool to align the spare exactly like the one in there, just in case setting timing wasn't convenient.  It's running great now....so far.  I drive it a lot so if it's gonna act up I should know that before September.
    OH, anyone with this system would do well to build and carry a spare dizzy and tools.  You probably would not be able to replace the PIP (Hall Effect) sensor in the dizzy on the side of the road.  It required complete disassembly of the dizzy and a press is highly recommended.

    Thanks again, next time I might recognize the symptoms for what they are.
     

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
       •Thread Starter
     

    2/03/2023 9:46 PM  #8

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    Raymond_B wrote:

    Definitely seen the TFI module behave like that,

    Thanks Raymond.  The only time I recall seeing an ign. module fail it was on a Chevy and it ran fine to my house but when he went to leave the module was dead.  Just couldn't figure how electronics could do such a good job of imitating water in the gas.

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
       •Thread Starter
     

    2/03/2023 10:54 PM  #9

    50vert
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    From: QLD Australia
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    The late model guys with remote TFI, seem to have more problems with the PIP sensor than the TFI.
    The fox guys seem to be about 50/50.
     

    "Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
     

    2/04/2023 7:08 AM  #10

    TKOPerformance
    Hyper FYIFORD ADDICT

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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
    Posts: 7,488

    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    The TFI was always a weak link in the Fox cars in my experience.  I would definitely suspect that before anything else if the issue is ignition related.  We used to use aftermarket modules because the stock ones could not keep up with a modified engine.  They didn't have enough dwell in them and you would get spark scatter over 3,500RPM.  Holley used to make a great module under the Annihilator line, but it seems it now carries the MSD name.

    https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/distributor_accessories/distributor_components/parts/83648

    Keeping a spare known good TFI around is never a bad idea.  They are easy enough to swap and at the very least eliminates a possibility while troubleshooting. 
     

     

    2/04/2023 10:12 AM  #11

    Raymond_B
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    From: Fort Worth, TX
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    50vert wrote:

    The late model guys with remote TFI, seem to have more problems with the PIP sensor than the TFI.
    The fox guys seem to be about 50/50.
     

    That's true because a main killer of the TFI module was heat, so Ford got them off the distributor and mounted them remotely on a small heat sink. 

    Both items are common failure points, **especially** as these parts age. Next up is the caps in the stock ECMs.
     

     

    2/04/2023 1:00 PM  #12

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
    Registered: 4/04/2013
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    Re: Have any of the very few EFI types on here ever had this.....

    BB – you’re right about replacing the TFI module on the side of the road.  I’m guessing this is the same setup that was on my 86 Bronco.  The TFI module failed while I was pulling out of my driveway.  Complete failure, no spark.  One needs to remove the gear and pull the shaft out from the top to get to the module that is under the top plate.  And you really need a press to remove the gear.

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

     

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