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When I installed 1977 or 78 Granada disc brakes in my car (1964 Falcon) several years ago, I transplanted the brake pressure differential valve (which at the time I understood to be a combination/proportioning, along with a dual bowl M/C. For at least 10 years, that set up worked perfectly.
During the Falcon's restoration, I installed a QUICK Performance 9-nch rear with drum brakes. I attempted to bleed the brakes; I found that I could not get pressure to the rear axle. I thought I had tripped the shuttle (sp) valve. That is, I believe this had occurred, if I had a bona fide proportioning valve. (see the attached photo of my valve).
I tried using a lock tool to keep the shuttle valve from blocking flow to the rear lines. Please check the photo of my valve and the link to PV 101 on the www.fordification.com website. This did not work. One method of shifting the shuttle valve to the neutral position is to bleed one front brake thereby returning the valve to the center allowing the lock tool to be placed during brake bleeding. The lock tool is inserted where the BRAKE warning light switch is located on the valve. The Falcon does not have a BRAKE warning light.
I want to replace the valve that is currently installed with a new part. I think I have located one that looks identical and is listed as a PV, but is it?
From what I have read, this valve is not a PV and the shuttle valve in my old part is just stuck.
Suggestions and sanity checks welcome.
Link: Proportioning Valves 101 - FORDification.com
Photo:
Last edited by moon4964 (3/11/2025 7:09 PM)
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Your picture is of a distribution valve, not a proportioning valve. The proportioning valve is an adjustable valve that you plumb into the rear brake line to adjust the pressure going to the rear brakes. If you now have no pressure there, then the shuttle valve has been tripped and moved to close off the rear brakes. There is a procedure to re-center the shuttle, but I can't remember what it is. I do remember when I installed Granada disc brakes on my 68 (disc/drum) I had a similar issue. I tried the re-centering procedure and it didn't work. I ended up removing the dist. valve and heating it up in an oven to 200 deg. and then slamming it onto a block of wood, I was able to get the stuck shuttle/piston out and clean it up so that I could re-install it, and it moved easily. I re-installed it and was able to dial in the rear brakes pressure and operation. I later replaced it with one out of a 95 once I went to all disc brakes.
*** I looked at your link, and it clarified something for me. My valve in my 68 was like the one in the small photos showing the piston and cut away. The final valve I installed when I did my all disc mod looks like the one in your picture. Sorry if I got it confused - it was done maybe 20 years ago - brain fart.....
Last edited by Ron68 (2/28/2025 2:21 PM)
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That's a combo valve. It includes a proportioning valve, metering valve, and a brake pressure differential valve. They are reproduced, but the new ones all seem to leak a short while later due to incorrect seals. They can be rebuilt with the correct seals.
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ACTUALLY…
Your picture is of a combination valve that contains a proportioning valve as well as a differential pressure valve.
The offset of the rear lines IN and OUT tells you it is a disc brake proportioning valve. If the IN and OUT were straight across, it would be for drum brakes and then would only be a differential pressure valve.
To recenter it, you need to make the end that has the most pressure spring a leak. Just open a bleed screw on that end, usually a front caliper. Then go in there snd STOMP on the brake pedal a few times. That will usually move the center spool to the opposite sode or back to center.
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It looks like the differential valve switch, is a single wire connection like a 67, vs the 2 wire connection on 68 and later.
Because you don't have a light on the dash to tell you the valve has moved, look for continuity between the terminal and the body of the combo valve. When the continuity disappears, the valve is centered.
As MS mentioned, the secret to centering is the "STOMP", not a gentle bleeding, I usually only STOMP them once, then check if it has centered so that I'm not chasing them backwards and forward. Unless you think it is sticking.
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MS wrote:
ACTUALLY…
Your picture is of a combination valve that contains a proportioning valve as well as a differential pressure valve.
The offset of the rear lines IN and OUT tells you it is a disc brake proportioning valve. If the IN and OUT were straight across, it would be for drum brakes and then would only be a differential pressure valve.
To recenter it, you need to make the end that has the most pressure spring a leak. Just open a bleed screw on that end, usually a front caliper. Then go in there snd STOMP on the brake pedal a few times. That will usually move the center spool to the opposite sode or back to center.
Thanks for the ACTUALLY MS.
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Moon4964…thanks for the link to explain the differences.
“Actually”…haven’t seen that in a while. 😂
Last edited by Nos681 (3/01/2025 12:40 AM)
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The latest on the brake situation:
I installed the new brake pressure distribution valve today but still no pressure (fluid) to the rear brakes. When the brake pedal is depressed, with the rear brake line disconnected at the M/C, there is little fluid squirting from the M/C port. Is it possible that the rod is too short? This is hard to believe because the pedal will go to the floor with the front caliper bleeder valve open. It seems that I may be chasing my tail.
Any suggestions, gentlemen?
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I sure sounds like the rod is too short, or there's something wrong with the master. It's easy enough to test the master, just pull it, put it in a vice and work it with a long screwdriver. If you get good fluid output like that then the issue is the pushrod. I believe some boosters have an adjustable pushrod, so it may just not be adjusted correctly. If you are running a booster that is.
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Thanks. This will be the second new M/C that I have put in the car over the last 3 months. It may be the cylinder. Update in a few days.
TM
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Do you have the rear drums installed? Hard to bleed if there is nothing for the pistons to push against. Also, shoes need to be adjusted properly first.
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After all the trials and errors I have experienced on my Falcon's restoration, I still have my self-esteem.
I set the m/c in a vice and proved that it works as it should, i.e. fluid shot from the rear brake port. The rod length is most likely too short. I have ordered the adjustable rod for 1964-1973 Fords.
I just need to set the proper length of the rod to solve this ridiculous issue.
I will report the results over the w/e.
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When you set the adjustable length, make sure that the push rod is not too long as the MC piston may not retract fully. I don’t remember what that slight gap should be, but it is important for the proper MC operation.
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okay. There is no booster involved, btw. The gauges available seem to refer to booster applications. The gap used was .020".
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Yeah, that sounds right. A little clearance in case things grow if they get hot. You definitely don't want it in contact with the piston in the master or the brakes might be slightly on all the time.
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Gentlemen, I am stumped!
Thinking that the problem was due to a M/C pushrod that was too short, I purchased an adjustable rod. It required shortening to fit. Backtracking a bit, I tested the M/C on a vise and fluid from the rear brake bowl shot out as expected. When the M/C is tested in the car, barely a drop dribbles from the rear bowl port.
I installed the new rod and still no fluid comes out of the rear bowl port. The front brakes bleed properly, but I am unable to bleed the rears, since no fluid makes it out of the M/C when it is in the car.
Is it possible to have the rod too long? I have removed the rod from the car in case shortening is recommended.
What might the problem be? Since I checked the operation of the M/C on the bench vise, I thought the problem would be solved with a longer rod or at least with one of the proper length. These are manual brakes, no booster.
The new rod makes contact with the M/C piston, since there is no problem bleeding the front calipers.
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Could the MC piston be bad? they have a separate piston for each bowl. If one is broken or missing, you could experience what you are.
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Yes, if the rod is too long, the piston will not retract and the bowl will not flow fluid into the master cylinder piston bore.
The bowl closest to the firewall feeds front brakes. Bowl closest to radiator is rear brakes.
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I suggest verifying the brake pedal/rod connection is in proper working order.
Make sure everything is 'tight' under the dash, pedal pivots, firewall connections, etc.
Check the rod travel at the firewall with the MC removed.
Compare this travel is the same as you have done to the MC on the bench.
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This may sound a little odd, but did you bleed the front brakes first? The reason I ask is that I had an issue years ago where I did that on a completely new system (no fluid in the lines to speak of), and it did exactly what you are describing. It was as if the front system was preventing a decent stroke to move fluid through the rear bowl. IIRC I fixed it by putting clear vinyl tube on all the bleeders and putting the ends into jars with a little brake fluid in the bottom (to prevent sucking air back through). I then pumped the pedal like 10 times with all the bleeders open, refilled the fluid, and repeated that another 2 or 3 times. Then I was able to close all but the farthest bleeder (right rear), and follow a proper bleeding rotation (right rear, left rear, right front, left front) after which everything worked just fine.
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From the first post it sounds like you had the brakes working at one time, but have you verified you have the correct pedal. I had an issue with that when i started on my car eons ago.
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Have you verified the combi valve is centered? It will block flow to the rear if it shifted due to unequal pressure
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Our Mustangers are wonderful!
Per MS's suggestion, I shortened the adjustable push rod so that it was short of making contact with the M/C piston. The brakes have been bled, and the brake lights work. As I mentioned earlier, the pressure operated brake light switch is in line with the rear brake line from the M/C.
Following the bleeding procedure, I adjusted the rod so that there is a slight bit of spacing before it makes contact with the M/C piston. I will go through the brake bleeding procedure one more time this week to get the brake pedal set to its optimum position.
I appreciate the valuable advice offered by each of you. BTW, on my test drive today, I was accompanied for a short distance by a 1969 Mustang owner who happened to be out for a drive. This time of year, in Chicagoland, I rarely see another 1960's car on the road. When I have taken the Falcon out, some people wave or give thumbs up as I drive by.
Last edited by moon4964 (3/15/2025 5:41 PM)
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