Yes its a rebuilt engine. The engine came with a 4bbl edelbrock on it, the carb was old and sloppy... and hated it.. as it kept stalling in the middle of the street and choke wouldnt ever work ..so  got this holley installed.. Anyone who has heard the engine says it seems to have a longer duration cam in it, and sounds heavier than a 289.. sounds like a 302 lol.. But It is not as far as I know.

It does have headers.

DOnot know the specs on the rebuild Sir.. I am so sorry. Like I said, I didnt ask quite as many needed questions as i should have. I am learning

 The car was sold to me by a guy/ dealership/restoration owner in ILLINOIS who was selling for someone. The car defeinitely is beautiful.. had all the parts.. but needed a bunch of rework.. A LOT .. which was discovered later.. and still being discovered. 

It sounds like DM did not care much about the quality of the job they performed for you, as the car never should have been returned to you in the condition it's in.

There are harmonic balancers that have the timing marks on the driver side, and there are balancers that have the timing marks on the passenger side.  The balancer must match the timing pointer position on the timing cover. 

You need to determine exactly what you have, and if the camshaft firing order is correct for the way the plug wires are routed. There are two different firing orders that could have been used as well.  A 289 or early 302 would use 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8 and a 5.0 roller cam or a 351W cam would use 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8.  A 289 or 302 will run with the 351W cam, even connected with the old 289 firing order, but it will sound really weird and will be way down on power if the wrong firing order is chosen.

So, you need to determine exactly what you have before you can get it right.

First, this might help, but is not 100% definitive of what cam is in there... Look on the engine block right above the starter and write down the numbers cast onto the block.  Post them here.  That will at least give us some indication of what year the block is, and that MIGHT indicate what cam is in it.

Then, take a look at your timing cover.  What side is the pointer on?

Look at the water pump.  What side is the lower radiator hose on?

Look at the balancer.  There are also two different possible balance weights on it.  Sometimes it is very difficult to see the weights with it installed, and maybe you can see them from underneath.  Get pics of the weights if you can.  Some have the imbalance made into the outer ring and some have them made into the center hub, on the engine side of the hub.  Then take a look at the stamped timing numbers.  Alot of aftermarket balancers have the numbers in two different locations so they can be used on engines with the two different locations of pointers.

Then there is the flywheel, which you cannot see unless you remove the inspection plate in front of the bellhousing.  It would be nice to know which balance is on the flywheel.  A picture of it would be great to post for more info.

Next, what distributor does it have?

None of this will tell for sure what CAM you have in there, but a simple plug wire swap from one to the other will usually sort that out.

As you can surmise, there are many varied ways one can screw up with a small block Ford engine if they mix and mismatch the wrong parts.  From the description of the car, with alot of things half-way (nicely worded) done, there is no telling what you have without some detective work.

I am thinking a road trip to Ovilla is in your near future.

Terry : This car came from a guy Chris Moffitt from Ko-ON Klassics restorations and contrating company.. Monticello IL

Mustang Steve: my engine has the timing marker on the drivers side, and lower radiator hose towards the passenger side.

The weight on the harmonic balancer looked like it was on the center hub, form what I recall when once I was under the car. I will try to take a pic

I will have to go under to look for the block number too, I will try to get that info as soon as as I can

Distributor is the old ford stock looks like, is there an idetifier on it?

Car is at starkey motors right now, getting motor mount fixed (one broke) .. once that is done, I will have the car, and will have time to look into all of this and take pictures.

Firing order as far as how my distributor is hooked up, is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 .. I remember cause I recently tightened my lifters to stop tapping and had to get that order written

Like I said , once I get the car I can give more info..

As far as trip to Ovilla, its only 40 minutes from my house.. I am willing to make that trip if I can get help form someone who knows stuff :D which I have been told that you are "the guru" :D :D

I really would love to get in touch with you over the phone or text, and if you have time, drop by sometime, and have you take a look, and give me pointers REALLY will appreciate that

Last edited by Gaba (1/15/2014 2:12 PM)

Thank oyu so much for that. I go to church in Flower mound The Village. I would love to get in touch with you Sir.

Yes, I will ask my questions here for sure. Belive I have got a LOT of them :D

Do you have a timming light? If so that would be your friend. If not you can do it the old man way loosen the distributor adjust to full timming till ping then back off slightly. Then adjust carb settings to propor adjustment. Allot of old wrench pullers like this. I prefer a light but hey to each their own.

Well, get that thing running properly and come Sept you can drive it back to Illinois for the Bash!!  you will only be an hour away from where you bought it

I just found this link today.  It shows the curve for a 4V 289 stock distributor. http://www.mustangbarn.com/Techinfoimages/C5GF-12127-A.jpg.  You are not too far off as far as total timing - you need to double the values as the table shows distributor advance.  Crank advance is double the distributor.  So, you can have 20 to 28 degrees mechanical and 22 degrees of vac. if I am reading it correctly.  That 56 only comes in when you have limited engine demand at speed.  When you push the pedal to accelerate the vac at the timed port will drop off some and drop the timing back.  But, I suspect the mechanic is right about your distributor.  If you are getting too much advance too early from weak springs, you could get into a ping.  A rebuild or a Duraspark may be in your future to get it right.  For now, running without vacuum will eliminate pinging but the curve is still not tuned for good driving and is a bandaid.  Yes, there are pure mechanical distributors but they run a different curve than a vac advance so you are not really running a hot rod mechanical distributor if you simply remove the line.  But, you can also get symptoms you describe if you have an engine that is carboned up with hot spots on the pistons or if you are running a real hot spark plug heat range.  Pull the plugs and see how they look and verify the plug number to make sure they are right for the motor.  It is hard to read plugs today with modern fuel but rich or fouled plugs are still pretty obvious.

For comparison, here is a link to the Boss 302 curve http://www.mustangbarn.com/Techinfoimages/C9ZF-12127-E.jpg - less mechanical and vacuum and includes a vacuum retard to match the needs of that particular motor.  Most aftermarket distributors will povide maximum performance if recurved to match the motor.

Last edited by GPatrick (1/20/2014 9:23 PM)

Gaba, I discussed the proceedure for checking for the correct timing and checking the correct functioning of the distributor in a post to Uwiik, dated 1-11-2014.  All you will need is a timing light and a tachometer.
It's quicker for you to go to that post than it is for me to re-write it.
Good Luck.

Gaba wrote:

I was asked about the cam and here it is.. Is it stock ? Is it milder? or harder (or whatever it would be called) ..

Let me know

Nope.........that sure ain't stock!! Even bigger than the hi-po 289 from the factory. It's the LSA that gives it the rumipty-rump idle(do you have those numbers?) butt........220/224@050 is a nice street rod  grind. Get a new distrib and set it up like that site I posted sez............you should be good with NO PINGING.
6sal6

I'm gonna take the liberty of correcting the identity of Gaba's motor itself to a '69 302 originally installed in a Fairlane or Torino.  We did confirm the crank is at least not 289 and the casting code under the starter dictates the engine is 302.

Gaba, message me or Larry and I will forward you a picture of your casting code. 

 

Last edited by Deb (1/28/2014 12:55 PM)