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  •  » aluminum radiator

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    1/29/2014 4:05 PM  #1

    65svt
    FYI FORD Member

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    From: east LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
    Registered: 4/03/2013
    Posts: 74

    aluminum radiator

    Whats up everyone, Im running a 96 cobra drivetrain on my 65 coupe and im having cooling issues(not overheating), computer is reprogramed to turn on fan at 190 and turn them off at 180 but when the fan turns of it doesnt turn off beacuse temp doesn't go under 182. Cooling system is burped. Since fan stays on constantly the relay gets hot. Im running an AFCO #80100fn  aluminum radiator 22x19 with ecm controlled 96 cobra fan. My question is if I go with a larger aluminum radiator like 27x19 will that lower the temp so my fan turns off??? Thanx in advance for your replies.

     

    1/29/2014 4:53 PM  #2

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,850

    Re: aluminum radiator

    well i'm gonna stick my neck out here, but isnt that a bit cool for a EFI engine to run???  I thought EFI ran better around 190 to 200????? I'm askin???

    Maybe the temperature sender is not reading properly, have you checked the engine with another thermometer

     

    1/29/2014 8:21 PM  #3

    65svt
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    From: east LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
    Registered: 4/03/2013
    Posts: 74

    Re: aluminum radiator

    terry wrote:

    well i'm gonna stick my neck out here, but isnt that a bit cool for a EFI engine to run???  I thought EFI ran better around 190 to 200????? I'm askin???

    Maybe the temperature sender is not reading properly, have you checked the engine with another thermometer

     

    Terry, i know exactly what you are saying but i was told by the people that reprogramed my ecm that it was a good idea to lower the temps, I think i will talk to them so they can raise the temps on the ecm so the fans dont stay on so much. I checked the sender with another thermometer and its with in specs. Thanx terry

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/29/2014 9:19 PM  #4

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,850

    Re: aluminum radiator

    I am not an expert on EFI so wait a bit and let a few other more experienced EFI people put in their opinions, that was just my 2 cents!
    i have a work car made by another brand (think bowtie) that has a small 4 cyl  that runs at 183 degrees??  go figure!!

     

    1/29/2014 10:03 PM  #5

    JamesW
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    From: Greenville, Tx
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 227

    Re: aluminum radiator

    Think I'd find another solution than spending hundreds of dollars to get 2 degrees cooler.... like reprogramming to go 195-185

     

    1/30/2014 2:14 PM  #6

    TimC
    I FYI 24-7

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    From: Wheaton, Illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 864

    Re: aluminum radiator

    SVT, I am not a cooling expert, but went through a few different scenarios trying to keep my son's SBC powered S10 pickup cool, where a mech fan was not an option for clearance reasons.  I would move away from the ecm triggered fan.  The sensor for that temp is probably in the block or intake, and not measuring the radiator temp.  The purpose of the fans is to control the radiator temp.  IMO, you need a sensor in the radiator which triggers the fan at desired temps.  In a perfect world, have a radiator shop weld a bung for a temp switch in your radiator near the lower hose. Some 90's Saabs & Volvos had a lower radiator hose fitting with a fan switch.  We picked one from a JY, bought a new switch to control the fan based on radiator temp.  It took us a couple of trials to get the right switch, but was the perfect solution for us.  We ended up with an OE Volvo fan controller, and a 2 speed VW coolant switch, which worked really well with our 2 speed Contour fan.  Google Volvo fan swap and you will see a lot of Jeep guys that figured it out.

     

    1/30/2014 4:45 PM  #7

    65svt
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    From: east LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
    Registered: 4/03/2013
    Posts: 74

    Re: aluminum radiator

    TimC wrote:

    SVT, I am not a cooling expert, but went through a few different scenarios trying to keep my son's SBC powered S10 pickup cool, where a mech fan was not an option for clearance reasons.  I would move away from the ecm triggered fan.  The sensor for that temp is probably in the block or intake, and not measuring the radiator temp.  The purpose of the fans is to control the radiator temp.  IMO, you need a sensor in the radiator which triggers the fan at desired temps.  In a perfect world, have a radiator shop weld a bung for a temp switch in your radiator near the lower hose. Some 90's Saabs & Volvos had a lower radiator hose fitting with a fan switch.  We picked one from a JY, bought a new switch to control the fan based on radiator temp.  It took us a couple of trials to get the right switch, but was the perfect solution for us.  We ended up with an OE Volvo fan controller, and a 2 speed VW coolant switch, which worked really well with our 2 speed Contour fan.  Google Volvo fan swap and you will see a lot of Jeep guys that figured it out.

    Tim, I know what you are saying, i was gonna do what you said and put a switch in the radiator but i didnt do that because the ecm not only controls the on/off at certain temps but the ecm also controls the fan when im at a certain MPH. ex. when low speed fan is on on I go over 45 MPH its shuts off the fan and it turns it on once it goes under 40 MPH. The stock location for my temp sensor is in the coolant crossover tube(outlet going to radiator), I think thats a good location for it. Thanx tim for your input.



       

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/30/2014 7:11 PM  #8

    TimC
    I FYI 24-7

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    From: Wheaton, Illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 864

    Re: aluminum radiator

    If you have followed FYIFord awhile you know there are a lot of theories and opinions on cooling and fans. Perhaps I'll speak once more and crawl back into my corner.  If you have swapped that Cobra setup into a 65, ya got more skills than me!  

     If the sensor that triggers the fan is in the outlet going to the radiator, the minute your thermostat opens, your fan is gonna go on and stay on until the thermostat closes, given your thermostat,  and current ecm settings.  Your ecm doesnt trust your radiator's cooling capacity.  Our first attempt to control fans was a DCControls controller.  Pricey, worked flawlessly, but the probe in the radiator ruined our cheap ebay radiator.  Ryan at DC Controls suggested attaching probe  to the thermostat housing, so we did, and installed a big Griffin radiator.  The radiator did an incredible job of lowering the coolant temps (as monitored with infrared thermometer), but the fan ran all the time (even in the deep winter) cuz the probe saw the 195 temp on the thermostat housing.  It wasn't until we moved the sensor to the lower hose with a 160 low speed trigger temp switch (180 high speed) (and replaced the fan controller with the Volvo unit due to fan controller relay failure) did we we get a fan that cycled on and off based on radiator temp. The fan did not come on much in winter, cycled well in summer only going to high speed when stuck in traffic.  Worked perfect with OEM parts for under $50.  If your goal is to get the fan to run less, you've got to move the sensor, IMHO.  I wouldnt care if the fan goes on and off based on my mph, I want my fan to come on, and go off based on radiator temperature.    You could buy a radiator big enough for a semi, but your ecm will never know the radiator coolant temp, and trigger the fans, if the sensor reads temps BEFORE the coolant gets to the radiator.

    Last edited by TimC (1/30/2014 7:37 PM)

     

    1/30/2014 9:54 PM  #9

    65svt
    FYI FORD Member

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    From: east LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
    Registered: 4/03/2013
    Posts: 74

    Re: aluminum radiator

    Tim, it looks to me you are a cooling expert ;) i had to read you post a couple of time and you make sense and you are so right. I think im gonna go with your idea. Can you give me more info about the fan trggers, where can i get them? What vehicle can i get them from??

    Thanx again tim

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/31/2014 9:06 AM  #10

    TimC
    I FYI 24-7

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    From: Wheaton, Illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 864

    Re: aluminum radiator

    http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192920&highlight=volvo

    Here's one link to get you thinking more.  This shows the volvo 2 speed fan controller, the wiring diagram, and the 2 speed fan switch mounted high in the radiator.  Is your fan a 2 speed fan? and are you up for getting the bung welded into your radiator? 

    I let my notes about the parts I cobbled together go, when my son sold the truck, but I'd be very happy to look it up again, but it'll take me a day or two.

     

    1/31/2014 9:33 AM  #11

    TimC
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    From: Wheaton, Illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 864

    Re: aluminum radiator

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-elec-fan-controller-relay-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-8-Mustang-Chevelle-GTO-Camaro-/291069447219?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c5174c33&vxp=mtr

    There's a link to the volvo 2 speed fan controller.  There are a few on ebay, but many have short or missing pigtails.  The pigtails are golden......


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saab-900-classic-tee-connector-for-radiator-hose-with-switch-1980-1993-/380728615523?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a531a263&vxp=mtr

    There's a link to a saab hose fitting on ebay.  I got mine in a JY for $5 but when was the last time you saw an 80's saab in a jy?  In saab's the tee is in the upper rad hose, but I like the lower hose idea to measure actual coolant temp. after the radiator has done its work.  You wouldnt need this tee if you had the bung in the radiator.

    We used a VW 2 speed temp switch, that I got from Rock Auto.  The pigtail for the switch could be had from the dealer, but you end up buying about 15 parts for a 3 wire pigtail and it was about $75.  Early 90's jettas and audi's have the pigtails on the lower D/S of the radiator.  The Audi's pigtail is a heavier gauge wire as audi routes the + wire through the switch.  The VW's have a smaller gauge wire in the pigtail as they route ground wire through the switch.

    I'll work on digging up the part numbers for the swithches.  there are a couple of different switches, depending on what temp you want to trigger the fans.

    In addition to these items, you will need some wire and fuses to get the setup in the car.

    BTW, I love your car, tell us more about it.....
     

    Last edited by TimC (1/31/2014 10:11 AM)

     

    1/31/2014 9:42 AM  #12

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 2,623

    Re: aluminum radiator

    This is what Im running on mine.   My also runs when I hit town but I asked DC controller and they say its nomal.   With there controller it runs at different speeds for how high you tempratures are.  I have a light and when it first turns on  its green and then midway yellow and full on red.  The Taurus fan runs
    quiet and if it wasn't for the light I wouldn't know the fan is on.

    Steve69 

    http://dccontrol.com/relay_controllers.htm

     

    1/31/2014 11:54 AM  #13

    65svt
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    From: east LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
    Registered: 4/03/2013
    Posts: 74

    Re: aluminum radiator

    TimC wrote:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-elec-fan-controller-relay-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-8-Mustang-Chevelle-GTO-Camaro-/291069447219?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c5174c33&vxp=mtr

    There's a link to the volvo 2 speed fan controller.  There are a few on ebay, but many have short or missing pigtails.  The pigtails are golden......


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saab-900-classic-tee-connector-for-radiator-hose-with-switch-1980-1993-/380728615523?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a531a263&vxp=mtr

    There's a link to a saab hose fitting on ebay.  I got mine in a JY for $5 but when was the last time you saw an 80's saab in a jy?  In saab's the tee is in the upper rad hose, but I like the lower hose idea to measure actual coolant temp. after the radiator has done its work.  You wouldnt need this tee if you had the bung in the radiator.

    We used a VW 2 speed temp switch, that I got from Rock Auto.  The pigtail for the switch could be had from the dealer, but you end up buying about 15 parts for a 3 wire pigtail and it was about $75.  Early 90's jettas and audi's have the pigtails on the lower D/S of the radiator.  The Audi's pigtail is a heavier gauge wire as audi routes the + wire through the switch.  The VW's have a smaller gauge wire in the pigtail as they route ground wire through the switch.

    I'll work on digging up the part numbers for the swithches.  there are a couple of different switches, depending on what temp you want to trigger the fans.

    In addition to these items, you will need some wire and fuses to get the setup in the car.

    BTW, I love your car, tell us more about it.....
     

    Tim, I already have a couple of volvo fan controllers with pigtails that I got from JY when I got my volvo 2 speed fan that im currently running, the only thing I will need is the temp switch and their pigtails so when ever you have a chance can you get me the part # for the switches and their temperatures, I don't knowwhat temp switches will work best for me right now so if possible give me the part # for the different ones. what year, vehicle can I get the switches/pigtails from since I have plenty of JY here. I think I will have the bung welded on rad near lower hose but I need to get the temp switches first so I can see the thead size. THANX again for all your help. Im gonna post a link of a video that someone took of my car at a car show(I didnt know they recorded it until a member from here told me about it, thanx to Derek for the link)
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvjiba8bLvQ

    Steve69, thanx for you input! I do like the indicator light idea ;)

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/31/2014 3:13 PM  #14

    TimC
    I FYI 24-7

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    From: Wheaton, Illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 864

    Re: aluminum radiator

    Steve69....Yeah, you got the good DC controller that is the variable speed version.  We had the basic 2speed controller, and it lasted about 1.5 years.  That VS version really reduces the draw when the fans come on.

    65svt.... OK, I THINK I got it.  DISCLAIMER!!!  Our lastest version had a 195 T-stat in the engine.  Your results may vary if you have a different t-stat, the cooling capacity of YOUR radiator, the exact location of the fan switch in your system, and a handful of other factors that escape me at the moment.  The custom made Griffin rad we used lowered coolant temps almost 30 degrees on its own, at idle, on a 70 degree day, no underdrive pulleys.  Our switch was in the saab tube in the lower hose. I'm 95% confident these are the 3 switches we tried:

    TS139  Low on at 203, high on at 215 low off at 185.  Fan hardly ever came on, engine temp too high.  I think this switch would be ok on an upper radiator hose or a high mount radiator setting.

    Echlin ECHFS151  Low on at 190, High on at 209.  Fan came on more, but engine still warmer than we liked in heavy traffic or sitting still.  Probably a good switch for a mid height radiator bung.

    We finally arrived at a Wahler switch part number 251 959 481/75.  Low on at 167, high on at 180, low off at 158.  It kept the enginge right at the 195-200 temp, and would cycle on/off, low/high/low/off depending on conditions. 

    Those switches all came from about 1991 thru 2001 Jettas, passats, Audi A4's, quattros', etc., and I believe the thread size is M22X1.5.  I got pigtails from an early 90's Jetta, and an early 90's A4.  As I mentioned before, one has heavier gauge wire, which I used, as the smaller gauge wired pigtail looked fragile for wiring a fan, IMO.

     

     

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