| ||
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for: FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events |
Offline
Those who replied to my previous thread may be familiar with my case, but I will shortly explain once again..
I have 289 C code with problematic off idle transition and whatnot.... Upon complete teardown I found out that everything is a mess....galled piston, galled crankshaft journal, valve not seating properly, etc....
I will keep my question simple...I will be going either 289 or 302, I have no interest in going 302 roller, stroker or whatnot, so please keep it between 289 vs. 302...
After everything that I already bought/have on hand I came up with below dilemma for the final decision.
- With 289 I need to machine my stock 289 crankshaft to undersize and buy smaller rod and main bearing + 0.027 MLS gasket to bump compression up. Around $650 total cost including shipping and tax + machining
- With 302 I need to buy new crankshaft and connecting rod, my friend thought He had a new 302 crank, apparently not, so I need to buy new from US. Around $1.200 after shipping and tax...
So is the extra 13CI worth the $550 difference between 289 vs 302??
Offline
Well I say NO. In my opinion the 289 has better rev characteristics then most other small blocks. I embarrassed ah few 347 strokers with my little 289. Although my next engine will be ah roller motor so I don't have to mess with all the oil additives that you have to use with the flat tappet cam. Plus cam technology is headed in that direction quickly. I predict flat tappet cam choices will soon become scarce. Much like tire choices for 14" wheels
Offline
"289" "302"
1. Vs. 0.
What kind of TQ/HP figure I can expect from 289 with:
- comp cams High Energy 268H
- Edelbrock E Street head with porting and polishing and port matching job
- Autolite 4100 1.12
- Weiand stealth intake
- Full 2.25" JBA exhaust system long header
- CR set at 9.5:1 ish
- 1.6 rocker ratio
- 0 deck height
- pertronix III ignition
- spark plug indexing
???
Last edited by Uwiik (2/24/2014 9:07 AM)
Offline
An objective answer depends on what are you going to use the car for?
Offline
Uwiik wrote:
"289" "302"
1. Vs. 0.
What kind of TQ/HP figure I can expect from 289 with:
- comp cams High Energy 268H
- Edelbrock E Street head with porting and polishing and port matching job
- Autolite 4100 1.12
- Weiand stealth intake
- Full 2.25" JBA exhaust system long header
- CR set at 9.5:1 ish
- 1.6 rocker ratio
- 0 deck height
- pertronix III ignition
- spark plug indexing
???
On paper hard to say? Properly tuned and with the correct carb maybe between 300-350hp , and around 300torque?
Offline
Uwiik wrote:
Those who replied to my previous thread may be familiar with my case, but I will shortly explain once again..
I have 289 C code with problematic off idle transition and whatnot.... Upon complete teardown I found out that everything is a mess....galled piston, galled crankshaft journal, valve not seating properly, etc....
I will keep my question simple...I will be going either 289 or 302, I have no interest in going 302 roller, stroker or whatnot, so please keep it between 289 vs. 302...
After everything that I already bought/have on hand I came up with below dilemma for the final decision.
- With 289 I need to machine my stock 289 crankshaft to undersize and buy smaller rod and main bearing + 0.027 MLS gasket to bump compression up. Around $650 total cost including shipping and tax + machining
- With 302 I need to buy new crankshaft and connecting rod, my friend thought He had a new 302 crank, apparently not, so I need to buy new from US. Around $1.200 after shipping and tax...
So is the extra 13CI worth the $550 difference between 289 vs 302??
I'd stay w/ the 289. The first thing I'd do is figure out what caused all the problems - sounds like an oiling issue to me. A balanced setup is the key to engine performance. If you do a mild port to the heads, install screw-in rocker studs, install a moderate cam and springs, 9.5:1 compression, dual plane aluminum intake (port matched to the heads), 600 cfm or less carb, good ignition curve, get the engine balanced, and headers, I think you are going to be around 325 HP at the engine and have good usable HP and torque.
Offline
325/350...depending on CR...cam...carb. Stay with the 289.
6sally6
Offline
Horsepower and torque differences between the two engines are neglible given the same equipment. If you were going to upgrade to a late model roller cam block that would be one thing, but judging both on their potential with a flat tappet cam, you will likely never notice the difference between the two. Save your money for something else and build the 289.
Offline
289 wins hands down!! OK then I am going that way!
Offline
6sally6 wrote:
325/350...depending on CR...cam...carb. Stay with the 289.
6sally6
I don't know Sall that seams a little high to me. On a mild naturally aspirated build 1 HP per cubic inch is a good rule of thumb.
Offline
So what kind of figure I can realistically expect to achieve with my setup?
Offline
Daze wrote:
6sally6 wrote:
325/350...depending on CR...cam...carb. Stay with the 289.
6sally6I don't know Sall that seams a little high to me. On a mild naturally aspirated build 1 HP per cubic inch is a good rule of thumb.
True-butt.......those heads are way better and with enough cam compression and carb....hhmmmmmm?!
Offline
My favorite trick on SBF builds is.........have the piston put on the rods with the notch pointing TO THE BACK OF THE ENGINE instead of the front.
You are gonna have ARP rod bolts installed and have the big ends re-sized!!?! That way...the engine should hold together VERY well in the upper RPM range. IF left stock....the first thing to come loose with be a rod bolt or a rod bearing will spin.
Both are BAD
Other tips coming later
6sal6
Offline
Offline
ultrastang wrote:
Yep!! Joe Sherman is DA MAN when it comes to engine building!
He posts pretty regularly on another site I like read. When he posts an answer......its gospel!
6s6
Offline
6sally6 wrote:
My favorite trick on SBF builds is.........have the piston put on the rods with the notch pointing TO THE BACK OF THE ENGINE instead of the front.
You are gonna have ARP rod bolts installed and have the big ends re-sized!!?! That way...the engine should hold together VERY well in the upper RPM range. IF left stock....the first thing to come loose with be a rod bolt or a rod bearing will spin.
Both are BAD
Other tips coming later
6sal6
That's new to me, Joe Sherman article claims 15-30hp by simply installing the pistons backward, that's A LOT of free power.....any downside on doing this other than increase noise when cold?? What is the logic behind it? Not doubting it but I was just wondering if the factory made the piston facing the intended direction then how come installing it against the factory recommendation actually result in more power??
What is re sizing big end? How to do it? Do I need to rebalance the rods after resizing the big end??
I was gonna use the stock bolt. If that's the case I will just buy a complete ARP SBF bolt kit...
Last edited by Uwiik (2/26/2014 9:40 AM)
Offline
ultrastang wrote:
A very interesting read....Just wondering about streetability factor with such a big hp from a small engine...
Last edited by Uwiik (2/26/2014 9:43 AM)
Offline
The wrist pin on the piston is offset instead of being centered in the piston. By installing them OPPOSITE of Ford it puts the connecting rod at a better angle in relation to the crankshaft. I have done a couple of SBF engines that way with ZERO problems. With headers you can't hear any cold start piston slap anyway.
IMPORTANT!
When you install the ARP rod bolts the pressing in process mis-shaps the big end of the rod...slightly. The resizing just trims and adjusts to bring them back to tolerance. If not......a spun rod bearing could be the result.(Not a very expensive process..butt-eye think a machine shop needs to do it.)
I'd spend the extra $$$ to have the rotating assembly balanced. That way...AFTER the engine is broken-in.......you're comfortable with what you have.....you start feeling like a teenage boy....and you "wring-it-out" in the first 3 gears....shouldn't have any problems.
I would also SLIGHTLY grind and polish all the rods to remove any flashing or irregularities on the rods. Not enough to weaken anything just to make everything slick. Just a small amount of weight OFF the connecting rods make a large difference in power(relatively speaking)
Same thing with ANY sharp edges in the combustion chamber. Grind and polish those spots smooth. That helps reduce the chances of pre-ignition.
Talking about heads....those Edelbrock heads are Aluminum,right?! You could go a full point higher on the crompression compared to iron heads. 10:1 would be a safe bet with a cam with a tight LSA. (All Isky Cams are ground on a 108* LSA) 224*@050 duration and about 540 Lift.
Roller tip rocker arms will help keep the oil cooler butt really doesn't pick up any power....UNLESS... you get 1.6:1 ratio arms. Then you will be getting into A LOT of lift for your springs. Your choice.
6sally6
Just noticed...you already have a cam....Pretty mild IMHO. I would degree it in when you make the install and advance it 4* MORE to get the most out of it in the range you will be driving. So be sure and get an adjustable timing set.
Last edited by 6sally6 (2/26/2014 10:52 PM)
Offline
6sally6 wrote:
10:1 would be a safe bet with a cam with a tight LSA. (All Isky Cams are ground on a 108* LSA) 224*@050 duration and about 540 Lift.
Which Isky cam would you reccomend?? Part number? How does this cam sounds on idle??
BTW: I have tried asking Ken from Delta cam per your suggestion but no reply
Offline
Isky cams part# 381280
224@050 duration.......108*LSA
Look it up.............should have "nice lopey idle"
This is probably the one used in the article by Joe Sherman.
Great price...get the cam..lifters..SPRINGS...retainers (all you need)
I'll check on Ken @ Delta Cams tomorrow
6sally6
Offline
Uwiik wrote:
6sally6 wrote:
BTW: I have tried asking Ken from Delta cam per your suggestion but no reply
I talked to him today. He said..."5 lines and just one person answering...sometimes folks don't get thru.
Said to call again and make SURE about the time difference. He is in Tacoma Wash. (Pacific time zone)
Took me about 3 tries.. they are pretty busy!
6s6
REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on. |