a drag racer who knows carbs and wants nothing to do with injection

Listen to these people...  I have had it both ways.  Mostly Holley carbs on high performance engines.  I built daughter Cara's 65 coupe with a 5.0 and EFI from a 90 Mustang.
I drove my 66 with a 351W from 1997 to 2013 with a carb. Never a problem.
Last year I converted to MSD electronic EFI.  Added alot of complexity to the car, electric fuel pumps (2 of them) return lines, electronics, etc.  Starts and drives great, but so did the carb.

I am even havng thoughts of removing the MSD EFI and reinstalling the perfect running carb I had on my 351W.  With a single, non-noisy fuel pump, and a single hard steel line from tank to fuel pump.

Simplicity goes with a carb every time.  EFI is great if you want to go through the hassle of getting it to work right.

Best thing about EFI is no fuel fumes boiling out of the carb.  Worst thing about EFI is if something goes wrong you can't fix it with a screwdriver, crescent wrench and a hammer. (read:complexity)

I am on the fence, I guess...  I pulled some spark plugs on the EFI 427 last night and they were black and sooty.  Never had that with my carb.  I AM CERTAIN your results will be different.

Complicated, by the fact I haven't seen it yet, I don't yet know what computer setup it has on it, but am told its brand new, and is believed to be sourced at Ford Racing.  Even at that, don't know if it's a totally adjustable setup. It's currently on a 302.  I already have a stainless 3/8 line coming to the carb and a smaller stainless line returning to the tank, so that tiny feature has been accomplished. I'll let you know what I find. If I were gonna do it, I guess I couldn't beat the price!

Definately old skool.
The cam you have may not be compatible with FI.
FI really like a LSA of 112/114 degrees.
You won't have that rumpity-rump exhaust note(if that is important). Like the others said.....elec fuel pump....returrn line...electrical add-ons........kinda takes the "hot-rod" out of the equation.
May as well just buy a new one and get a warranty. IMHO!
6sal6

If it's all Cobra...and all there let me know if you decide not to grab it. I'll make it worth your trouble. 

Having said that, seven (I think) years  ago I had never touched an early Mustang other than to go cruising in a brandy-new black/black 65 A code, 4 speed fastback GT back in 65.  Then when we decided to get back in to some kind of classic, my wife specified a Mustang...hardtop.

Once I realized that she would never be happy with the hot fuel stink in the garage or other driveability issues of carbs, I decided to go with EFI and make the car somethin she  would drive and enjoy.

I bought a cheap 89 Lincoln TC, rebuilt the engine and AOD, upgraded the EFI to Mass-Air, and modified the stock (89) harness to marry the Mustang and operate my changes.  Also up-graded the engine to HO specs, ran the extra fuel line using an external Walbro pump and late Ford filter.  Plumbed the whole thing in steel with nylon flex at each end using the Ford type duck-bill and girdle fittings.  No leaks, no problems.
I read everything I could find on the subject of EFI (Ford EEC IV) and conversions to early cars.  I discovered that it really ain't rocket science...well, 25 years ago it was close but not now.  I learned so much on that project and it fit right in with my approach to all my cars...I've never had a stock car, something always gets "customized".  So the challenge of doing all the little changes to accomodate EFI was right up my alley...may not be your's. 
In 2010, on the way to the Bash in Kalispell, MT, I hooked up with MS, Tubo, and Glen B.  over near Colorado Springs.  MS decided that he wanted to see Pikes Peak.  So....up we went, 14,115 feet.  Glen and I were driving injected early coupes.  His had a blown 5.0 with 5 speed.  The two coupes absolutely behaved as well as MS's 07 and the, ah, well, the late model car that Tubo was driving.

That trip was 2700 miles.  The year before was nearly 2200 to Dallas and back.  No problems, no issues, no excitment, just set the cruise (over 80 across Wyo following Glen) and enjoy the ride.

Do not expect super economy with EFI.  A properly tuned pot will do as well but it's just easier with the EFI as it will constantly be perfecting the mixture as you driive.  And while we're on that subject, I read in Charles Probst's (EEC IV bible) book that removing the EGR  on an injected engine won't improve performance and may hurt fuel econ.  Well, I think I proved it.  With EGR the car delivered 24-26 going to Dallas.  Without EGR it was a fairly consistant 22 going to Kalispell...'course we were running a bit faster on that trip.

So...make yourself happy.  Butt (TS&T), if your wife is going to drive it, EFI might make her happier.  And, if you go that way you'll learn a lot of stuff you might not otherwise learn.
If wiring frightens you, I recommend staying with the carb.  There are 47 +- wires connected to the EEC IV PCM and you'll use most of them.  A little research or a post here will tell you what your can do away with and what you can't.  And...here's where I give you a warning: 
When I got back from Kalispell the fuel tank in our car resembled a beach ball...yeah, it was seriously swollen.  The stock gas cap vents in but not out and with all that hot fuel circulating, the vapor pressure apparently gets pretty high.  When the car goes back together in the next few months it will have vent line and a charcoal canister and I will re-enable the canister purge function.  They put that on there for a reason, I guess.

I will stick with EFI and when I say EFI I mean Ford's EEC IV.  It's cheap, flexible, works well, is stone-cold reliable, and so far parts are reasonably abundant.  And with the addition of tuners such as the Moats Quarterhorse and others it can be made to run dang near anything you might choose with as much HP as is legal...or should be.

Wow...I really got windy.   Sorry.

BB
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (4/05/2014 8:17 PM)

Lance wrote:

It is all there. The injectors appear new. It is an 89 cobra setup complete with the computer and sensors. One of the polished metal ones. I'm not afraid of wiring, but when we did my pop's we ordered up an aftermarket wiring harness that mated with the vintage harness at the firewall and it worked out well.

Everything vintage about these old critters, including the occasional stranding... my wife finds charming. It reminds her of her dad's cars back in the day. She's "special". Never complains about coming to get me or needing fetched. But I digress.

I think ill do it just because it dropped in my lap. It's gonna cost me a few hundred to play, but I like learning too. And silly as it is, I'll have everything I need to change it back if I've made a mistake. At least I'll have a solid opinion of my own about the effects of injecting.

Good decision...welcome to the "club".

BB

ultrastang wrote:

Is this an '89 5.0L H.O. Mustang GT engine with a Cobra upper/lower intake that's replaced the original upper/lower or, is the seller presenting the engine as an '89 Cobra engine?

A (true) Cobra 5.0L didn't exist until 1993.

Stock H.O. 5.0L 19 lb/hr fuel injectors will be color coded tan. Cobra 21 lb/hr injectors will be coded light blue.

Steve, all the 19lb injectors I have found are orange.  Just sayin'.

BB

This site probably has the highest ratio of EFI users/members on the web.  I recall looking at all the cars at the last Dallas Bash and it seemed like half the cars there were EFI.  

It just boils down to personal preference.  For me, I don't drive my car enough and in the early years I was always fighting a carb that didn't run right.  Probably my inexperience with carbs, but I swapped to the EFI and now the car runs when I want it to run.  And the smell comment that others have made is true too.

 

Last edited by JamesW (4/06/2014 8:58 AM)

Ok, I have sat out of this one long enough.  I too have been a long time convert to EFI.  I was actually one of the first.  It was around 1990 and Ford had changed over to Mass Air for a couple of years by then on the HO's.  They ran great and adjusted for hopping up the engine gracefully (unless you got too much cam). 

I drove my 67 Coupe every day and I was sick and tired of getting out of the car smelling like a gas can and having to almost constantly adjust the idle circuit on the Holley.  It was a pain in the ***, and I hated the smell.  I know I was partly at fault with the smell because I ran an open air cleaner, but carbs always smell anyway.

Then it hit me.....the new 5.0 EFI intake would bolt right onto my old 289.  I would just need to feed it the proper fuel pressure and wire it in.  In these pre-internet days finding out the information proved to be challenging, and I was met with a lot of skepticism by experts and proclomations of "it will NEVER run" from people who thought they were experts.  I eventually preservered and gathered enough information to make the swap.  Despite the fact that the manifold I purchased had been sitting for a couple of years and the injectors were hideously clogged, it fired up and managed to actually idle with only about 3 injectors working correctly.

Since then I have logged over 75,000 miles with the factory EFI on my car.  The only problems I ever had with it involved a dead relay to ECU and trouble with inline fuel pumps.  It did not matter how low I tried to mount the fuel pump in front of the tank, it would have trouble pulling fuel and it would overheat and vapor lock.  I tried several different brands of pumps, same result.  I eventually installed a fitting into the top of my fuel tank and intalled the late model syle pump inside the tank.  I drove this car with fuel injection without any incidents for the next several years, and as I said before, put over 75,000 trouble free and non-gasoline-smelling miles behind me.  To this I say to most anybody wanting to convert their old Mustang over to EFI, consider purchasing a new tank made for it.  I like the one made by Tanks.inc



http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=345/category_id=145/mode=prod/prd345.htm

It was totally worth it for me.  I averaged about 21-22 mpg with the EFI,  It ran well but did not rev like the Edelbrock 500 cfm carb that I had on it previously.  Of course I was just running the stock HO intake and throttle body.  It started every time and all you ever had to do was crank the key and drop the clutch.  It was ready to drive as soon as it started, in any weather. 

The question you need to ask yourself is if it is worth the extra trouble and expense to install it on your car.  You have to make changes to the fuel and electrical systems on your car, change out a lot of parts, and if you want it to rev you have to have the Cobra or GT40 intake manifold and larger than stock throttle body and mass air sensor and matching injectors.  All of these parts add up to quite a bit of money, and Ford did not make a better than stock manifold until the 93 Cobra came out, 89 would have been a standard HO intake.

If you are going to drive the car everyday, I cannot imagine why you would not want to convert to EFI, but if you are only going to drive once every weekend or so and not duing the winter at all, you really have to consider if it is anything that you need.  A properly sized and tuned carb will absolutely perform as well as the EFI, in fact, better than the factory HO EFI manifolds, and should give you almost as good mileage (although I always got better with the EFI by about 3-4 mpg compared to the carb).

I must appologize to Steve for using up all his message board with this post, but I got on a roll....

I was going to put a complete 90'  5.0 in my 67, after the car sat around at a shop for 4 yrs. I bought a 79 F100 that had a blown eng.  So, instead of waiting around for the 67, I put the complete 5.0 set up into the truck including AOD tranny. 
I'm not real mechanically inclined so, needless to say $2000 later the truck finally ran decent.
Start up was awsome, but for $2000. I could have had a brand new eng, not one with 90k mi. 

That experience covinced me to go carb on the 67. 

Just my 2 cents.

MustangSteve wrote:

a drag racer who knows carbs and wants nothing to do with injection

I am even havng thoughts of removing the MSD EFI and reinstalling the perfect running carb I had on my 351W.  With a single, non-noisy fuel pump, and a single hard steel line from tank to fuel pump.
.

If you do, I want first dibs on the MSD setup...

A larger resolution pic of the computer where you can read the numbers would help a lot to judge. IMHO $100 is next to free for all that nice stuff. On the other hand we can not really compare as the USD ain't that much worth over here in northern Europe.

What you have there looks pretty much what Steve "ultrastang" was friendly enough to donate to me back in 2002 and that I used to convert my 289 in my '67 to EFI. What was missing I was able to source from European cars and it ran really nice when done. I used and modified an original wiring harness. Two years later I had the welding fire accident that turned the car into the Phoenix Project, but that's another story.

EFI Computer Digits:

See if that's any better!