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4/12/2014 1:44 PM  #1


Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Opinions swing to 87-93 doner cars for the whole drivetrain swap, but I believe that's for overall length.  Considering the EFI conversion, I find myself with a MAS manifold but need a compatible computer. Mine is a Speed Density, essentially useless to me. The guys at EECTuning.org suggested the 94-95 PCMs were a faster stock processor, and especially if I were going to use an aftermarket tuner/controller I should find one of those.  Can I find any disagreement here?

Mine is definitely going back together this weekend with my carb.  Just trying to make sure I understand where I'm going with this later in the fall.

Thanks,

Lance

 

4/12/2014 4:05 PM  #2


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Really no difference, and I would argue that for a retrofit the old FOX computer is better, simpler=better. It's not powering space exploration, just an engine To compare processor speeds like it makes a difference is silly IMHO.

 

4/12/2014 4:36 PM  #3


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

I have a 95 unit in my car and have noticed an improvement in the transition stuff when it matters most. Like throttle response when double clutching and other quick on throttle, off throttle manuvers (really crooked roads). I guess processor speed only matters when you use it. The earlier units are slower, but unless you really push the thing, most will not notice. I sure see it on the track.

 

4/12/2014 4:40 PM  #4


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

DC wrote:

I have a 95 unit in my car and have noticed an improvement in the transition stuff when it matters most. Like throttle response when double clutching and other quick on throttle, off throttle manuvers (really crooked roads). I guess processor speed only matters when you use it. The earlier units are slower, but unless you really push the thing, most will not notice. I sure see it on the track.

It's possible that is simply the difference in strategies, or perhaps tuning if you're doing any? But really no way to tell for sure, good information though.
 

 

4/12/2014 4:57 PM  #5


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

We worked with the tuner for quite a while on the earlier unit and only fixed the whole problem when the Ford engineer told us to use the newer unit from the 95. He said something about the throttle position circuit being much improved.

 

4/13/2014 12:23 AM  #6


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

You can plug a MAF pigtail into a SD EFI harness, and the unit will work perfectly with an ECCIV MAF pcm(like an A9P or A9L) The 94-95 Harnesses and pcm's use a different plug with more pins and are not backwards compatible with the older harnesses.
Stick with the ECCIV and you can keep the SD harness. MAF pigtails are relatively easy to add.

Tubo


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

4/13/2014 5:03 AM  #7


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Found a couple of links on the subject that you might already have read, but anyway:

http://webpages.charter.net/darrell1/mustang_efi.html

http://info.efidynotuning.com/efiswap.htm

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85887

Hard to make any conclusions out of all that info, but it at least sounds to me like it would be easier to use the earlier 89-93 EEC-IV.

 

4/13/2014 10:01 AM  #8


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

I do understand that the practical differences of a faster processor may be subtle, but it seems the subtleties are what prevent stammering or hesitation with heavy throttle. Seems that might be what produces a power train that feels like it anticipates what you want from it. The 94-95 processor is said to be 3x faster according to Hakan's first article above. All of the downsides of Ford programming go away with a tuner involved. Which leaves a different connector to one sensor that's wired differently as the only drawback. Provided I can sort that out, the faster processor attracts me.  Think about how different your desktop PC is between old and new in four or five years. Processor speeds can make one seem like a dinosaur compared to the older. The single issue I anticipate is the connector to the MAS. 

Please don't imagine I'm disregarding the advice above.  Simplicity is of value, but the simple thing would be to leave the car carbureted. I'm coming from zero personal EFI experience compared to all of your vast experience. For me, it's batting these things back and fourth that produces understanding. Just trying to politely soak it all in. I've got five months to digest it all. :-)

     Thread Starter
 

4/13/2014 10:14 AM  #9


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Tubo,

Do you mean that the 60-pin major connector is different? I thought I was reading that just one of the sensor connectors was different. Yes, if it's the major 60-pin connector, that seems like a plan squelcher to me. Could you please clarify?

Thank you,

Lance.

     Thread Starter
 

4/13/2014 10:15 AM  #10


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Tubo wrote:

You can plug a MAF pigtail into a SD EFI harness, and the unit will work perfectly with an ECCIV MAF pcm(like an A9P or A9L) The 94-95 Harnesses and pcm's use a different plug with more pins and are not backwards compatible with the older harnesses.
Stick with the ECCIV and you can keep the SD harness. MAF pigtails are relatively easy to add.

Tubo

Are you sure about the different connector, Corky?  The one we were messing with was for an Automatic and it was a 60 pin just like the 93-back.  I've never thought of using the 94-95 5-spd PCM.  It should be a 60 pin EEC IV just like the earlier ones. 
There were a number of pin-out differences as I recall with the Automatic unit but maybe not so with the 5-spd.

DC...what year is the car you are racing?

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

4/13/2014 11:58 AM  #11


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Lance wrote:

I do understand that the practical differences of a faster processor may be subtle, but it seems the subtleties are what prevent stammering or hesitation with heavy throttle. Seems that might be what produces a power train that feels like it anticipates what you want from it. The 94-95 processor is said to be 3x faster according to Hakan's first article above. All of the downsides of Ford programming go away with a tuner involved. Which leaves a different connector to one sensor that's wired differently as the only drawback. Provided I can sort that out, the faster processor attracts me. Think about how different your desktop PC is between old and new in four or five years. Processor speeds can make one seem like a dinosaur compared to the older. The single issue I anticipate is the connector to the MAS.

Please don't imagine I'm disregarding the advice above. Simplicity is of value, but the simple thing would be to leave the car carbureted. I'm coming from zero personal EFI experience compared to all of your vast experience. For me, it's batting these things back and fourth that produces understanding. Just trying to politely soak it all in. I've got five months to digest it all. :-)

This is just my personal experience, but I tuned a ton of FOX body cars and SN-95s, with EEC-Tuners, TwEECers and regular old chips. Never hit any issue that could be linked to processor speed, not discounting it, just sayin'...

As far as the 60 pin connector being different, it is slightly (SN95 is OBD-I among other things), but no big deal. If you Google for FOX and SN-95 60 pin pinouts you'll see the differences.

This is a pretty good link that has a good list of links
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/1995-vs-1990-eec-v-vs-eec-iv.796049/

And another one
http://forums.corral.net/forums/94-95-tech/988655-sn95-fox-re-pin.html#post7529034
 

Last edited by Raymond_B (4/13/2014 12:07 PM)

 

4/13/2014 12:48 PM  #12


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Yes we did use the 95 engine harness with the 95 module. Less than an hour to change on my car. I try to route al wiring to be worked on and also out of sight as much as possible.

 

4/13/2014 2:51 PM  #13


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

Raymond_B wrote:

Lance wrote:

Do you mean that the 60-pin major connector is different?

As far as the 60 pin connector being different, it is slightly (SN95 is OBD-I among other things),
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/1995-vs-1990-eec-v-vs-eec-iv.796049/

And another one
http://forums.corral.net/forums/94-95-tech/988655-sn95-fox-re-pin.html#post7529034
 

It has been several years and I have slept since I last have seen a 94-95 connector, however my memories were saying 106 pin fer the 94-95.
I apparrently stand corrected. Now what the dang heck uses a 106 pin connctor??

Tubo


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

4/13/2014 7:39 PM  #14


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

1996 EEC-V processors (OBD-II) had 104 pin connectors.

http://www.mre-books.com/sa82/sa82_7.html

 

4/16/2014 8:06 PM  #15


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

The 94/95 cars all have bad pinging issues, even at stock timing... Cant advance the timing for performance because of it...many with 94/95 cars retrofit the earlier computers in...I would never run a 94/95 computer

 

4/17/2014 9:03 AM  #16


Re: Downside to a 94-95 PCM in a 65 EFI conversion?

I agree with Jeremy on not using the 94/95 unit unless you have too. I have never used one on a 94 0r 95 engine. Only time I used one was to get rid of the stumble on quick transitions per the Ford engineer. It worked great for that. Very few folks would ever notice the stumble with the earlier version unless you regularly run on certain road courses. My race car is a 95 GT but because of rules I run a 600 CFM double pumper on it. It has aluminum heads and not a single part in the motor came on a 95. If I had a 95 unit on the shelf and a need I would not hesitate to run it on a well built motor. I don't know about the stock 95GT pinging, since I never did anything with that combo. When I had the 95 controller on my 65 it was set up with the whole 95 induction on top of an aluminum headed all forged motor with forced induction. I sold that set up to someone that wanted it pretty bad, so I now have a 331 stroked GT40 headed set up with a single four barrel in the 65.

 

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