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My 1966 Mustang 289 is starting to run hot in this FL heat in traffic. It is a 3 speed manual, with no AC, no power anything. The engine is rebuilt with .030 over and runs perfect with original 2 barrel carb. I have the original 2 row radiator with 4 blade fan. I flushed the radiator and engine and changed thermostat to 180. I filled it with distilled water and a bottle of "hy-per lube" super coolant. The guage moves to half way very quickly while sitting at a red light. This is what it was doing before I changed the thermostat and flushed it out. I found a nearly new 3 row radiator that I plan on installing. I would like to know if I should change the thermostat to a 160 degree? I would like to know which fan option will work the best? I have a nice 18" flex fan still in the box, but it looks too large and I believe it will slice my hoses. Will a 5 blade or 6 blade work OK? Should I convert to a flex fan? or should I go with a fan clutch?
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I vote for the 3 core rad and a thermo clutch fan. Mine never overheats and that's without a shroud. What part of fl are you from?
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What fan goes best wth the clutch? Any comments on the thermostat? I am in St Pete.
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From what I've heard the SBF operates best when it's up to temperature. You my get arguments on this but most seem to think around 180 is good. Putting a 160 in will only bandaid the problem. It will start to cool sooner. If the fan and rad are not doing their job, if you sit long enough, wit will still over heat. IMHO
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Does the radiator puke water out where you have to keep adding it? Correct fill level is about 1" below the bottom of the filler neck. Any higher and it will self-correct until it gets that low, and then should stay at that level. When you say it is overheating, what are the symptoms other than the gauge reads at midpoint?
Most would be very content with a gauge that reads at midpoint. Stock configuration has the needle at about 5/8 travel when at operating temperature. Use a 180 thermostat. If your gauge reads 5/8 to 3/4 range, and the radiator does not puke coolant then it is not overheating. Drive and enjoy!
If a real overheating problem does exist, and you have the original two row radiator, a very simple upgrade to a 3 row radiator will likely take care of any problems. The fan you have worked fine for many, many years and they do not wear out. Be sure the fan belt is in good condition and properly tensioned.
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GOOD ADVICE MS
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180 isn't the max operating temperature of the thermostat. It's the 'cracking' temperature. Cracking means the point in temperature the thermostat begins to open. It will take 20 more degrees above the 180 rating for the thermostat to be fully open. This would put the temperature at 200 degrees. If the radiator isn't boiling over and losing coolant, this shouldn't be a problem.
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IMHO, a 192 degree thermo should be used. Engines perform better at around 190 degrees, and give longer life, if cooling system is working normally. This is my experiences on these "Infernal Combustion Engines"
Howard
Last edited by hmartin025 (6/28/2014 10:46 AM)
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Have you checked out your lower radiator hose? It might be collapsing on you. The inner part can collapse and you will never see it. My '66 was originally just like yours and I ran it in LA traffic jams at over 100 deg ambient for years with no problems. I think you have a clog somewhere.
Now I have a 350hp 351 with 4 core radiator and 5 blade fan. It does not start warming over till over 100 deg. Even in traffic.
Last edited by lowercasesteve (6/28/2014 12:02 PM)
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The radiator keeps puking water. The level will go below the top of the tank. The guage will then run to 3/4. I keep adding water to keep it from over heating. It runs OK on long trips. I drove it 868 miles from Nashville TN to Saint Petersburg FL. It was much cooler in March when I made the trip. The gauge never moved until I reached Gainsville. The car runs terrible and oil pressure drops once temp is half way. You can feel radiant heat coming through the fire wall. I drive 20-30 minutes to work every day in heavy traffic. The car pukes water and hisses every time I park it after driving in the heat. I believe the 3 row radiator and a better fan will keep the car cool in heavy traffic.
I bought the car from my uncle, he bought it new! He claims it never ran hot with him. It took him 48 years to put 107,000 miles on it. He never drove it much. Mostly sat in the barn outside of Nashville, TN! Country driving is different than city driving. I doubt he ever sat in 45 minute traffic with 100 degrees outside.
MS...thanks for your advise!
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"The radiator keeps puking water. The level will go below the top of the tank."
The level is SUPPOSED to be 1" BELOW the bottom of the fill neck. If you are constantly trying to fill it to the top of the tank, then of course it is going to puke water and try to settle in at that correct level. 3/4 gauge is not anything to worry about,though..
Three row radiator is a good idea if you decide you must change it out.. You might even consider a 2 row aluminum unit. A fan shroud will help the fan pull more air through the radiator. Unfortunately there are not many decent choices for the 65/66 shroud. The repops of the originals are a flimsy joke. Originals are nice and strong, even though they do not do much.
Best fan I have found is from Summit Racing. It is a 17" flex fan with offset blades so it does not make noise. They also make same fan with a black center instead of blue.FanFLX-1817 $ 47.97
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Have you actually verified the temperature with a thermal gun or a real mechanical temp gauge? Checking the top tank temp against the lower temp and checking side to side may tell you something...like is the rad plugged up. My 5.0 in a 66 runs right near the 194 degree stat at 195 -200 on top and just under 150 leaving the rad at the bottom. I have a two-row 20" aluminum rad, seven blade clutch fan, coil in the lower hose and a proper, home brew shroud. The stock gauge runs just over the half mark and stays there no matter what. Idleing with AC, running 80 with AC, climbing Pikes Peak in July with AC on.
If it's really getting hot when the ambient temp comes up, you may have a bit too little rad or plugged tubes. If you do move up a notch with the radiator, I also recommend a good clutch fan, a proper (that means you make one that fits correctly) shroud, and make sure the lower hose isn't collapsing. You may consider going to a 20" rad also...aluminum. It does require a bit of cutting on the core support but totally worth it in my opinion. To me, just having enough cooling system to make "not get too hot" in normal conditions isn't good enough. These things were marginal when new so I think you need to over build it. I like the fact that I rarely feel the need to even look at the temp gauge...just like a new car.
B
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Also consider blockage in the radiator. If you performed the flush at home, did you use a chemical flush? Either way, you might want to have the radiator cleaned at a radiator shop, they use stronger chemicals to flush and may be able to tell you if there is a blockage.
Also, check the fins between the tubes, they need to be tight against the tubes for proper heat transfer ... might be time to replace this original radiator.
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Using a small mirrow and strong flashlight look across the top of the tubes to see if any debris is visable at top of tubes. If a tube is stopped up with chunks of rust and etc. is usually visable. Of course drain coolant first! LOL
Howard
Last edited by hmartin025 (6/29/2014 8:02 AM)
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If it just started running hot, before I started changing anything I would pressure test the cooling system you may have a leaking head gasket letting exhaust into the water jackets, freeze plugs corroded and leaking, stuck thermostat, do the basics first fix it then upgrade if need be.
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my suggestions are these: 3 or 4 row rad ( I run a 4), 17" 7 blade flex fan,( summit) fan shroud is a must, even if it's a crappy one, ( if you don't use a shroud, how far is the fan from the rad) proper fan placement of the fan in the shroud, blade half in, half out, 180' thermostat, make sure there is a spring in the bottom radiator hose, anti collapse. I personally don't care for the clutch fan setup, ( that's just me) I like the direct setup. This is pretty much the setup I use on a 68, 289 4bbl. auto and it works really well. It gets plenty hot in N.Y., and I've been stuck in ugly traffic on bridges in july, just staring at the temp gauge ( out of habit I guess). it worked out well, good combo. I hope this helps. Good luck!
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Sometimes a good shroud makes all the difference. ;-)
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I have an aluminum rad in my 66 with a 289 with a 6 blade fan (not a flex fan) no shroud and I have no over heating problems. Even with the original rad it ran cool. I'm in southeastern Virginia and our summers get as hot an humid as they do in St. Pete (we come to Treasure Island once a year). I did add a manually controlled pusher fan only because I got it for nothin'. Thought I might need it while waiting for draw bridges but haven't needed it yet. I'm thinkin with a 48 year old car that spent that much time sittin the rad change would be a good idea.
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I purchased a used 3 row radiator off of Craiglist. It is about 2 yrs old, came from NPD. The guy still had the box. He switched to an aluminum and electric fan set up. He gave me a 7 blade flex fan with black center. It looks like a FanFLX-1817. I have a fan shroud that I never installed. My lower radiator hose does not have the wire insert. Can I purchase this separate, or do I need a new hose? The hose looks great.
The fan is heavy, do I need a clutch?
The old set up had plenty of room between fan and radiator.
How close should the fan be to the radiator.
If I install the shroud with new 3 row radiator, the new fan will line up about half in and half out of the shroud using original spacer. My concern is how heavy the fan blade is compaired with the old 4 blade. Will this put extra wear on the water pump? will a clutch help? Should I invest in an aluminum flex fan? I will post pictures after this week end install. Thanks for everyone's input...
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While I normally agree with Mustang Steve on almost everything, I have to highly disagree with the comments that "stock configuration has the needle at about 5/8 travel when at normal operating temperature" and that "3/4 of the gauge is nothing to worry about".
Of all the Mustangs my dad and I have owned, two 66 models and a two 67 models, all have been at normal operating temperatures between the T and the E on the gauge. Yes we live in Dallas, and this is the norm for our cars. IF they have a experience a problem and the needle reaches the 3/4 mark, they are indeed in a situation of much concern.
This has been our experience with four cars with the original stock gauges. It is something that we can depend on with these cars, just like the Ammeter not working at all.
To address the problem that My66stang is having, he might consider checking the timing and confirming that the vacuum advance is working properly. I had an experience one time on the highway where the little c clip that retained the vacuum advance onto the advance plate in the distributer came off while I was driving. There was an immediate loss of power and the engine temps shot up pretty fast. Just saying that timing can cause a lot of the problem as well, especially if the cooling system has previously done its job. Also the fan shroud should be considered a "must have" item.
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OK, here's my take on engine temp. In 99% of cases it really doesn't matter where the needle is on the gauge. What matters is (after engine is fully warm) the needle plants itself and not move under all conditions. That means there is adequate cooling reserve and thermostat is working correctly.
Howard
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My66stang:
Sounds like what you have is good, 3 row and shroud. Thefan half way out of the shroud sounds good as well. I would probablly upgrade to the flex fan if you can afford to at this time.
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My66stang:
Sounds like what you have is good, 3 row and shroud. Thefan half way out of the shroud sounds good as well. I would probablly upgrade to the flex fan if you can afford to at this time.
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Lots of good info here.
*Pressure test the system
* Fan shroud all the way
*Check vacuum advance for leaks/ proper operation
Particularly the timing. If you're initial is set at the factory 6* BTDC and are running ported vacuum to the distrubutor you're not getting the power and fuel efficiency potential that 289 has, and are taxing the cooling system by generating all that wasted heat energy in the process.
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I'm not liking the used radiator purchase from Craig list- but that's just me, no harm intended but you just don't know what kind of life it led , even if it is 2 yrs old. Some thing as important as this deserves new in MHO. And yes, you can purchase the spring for the bottom hose separately,or a new hose with one in it already. Good luck, it'll work.
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