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  •  » Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

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    6/29/2014 1:57 PM  #1

    Mochaman
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    From: Royse City, Texas
    Registered: 4/02/2013
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    Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    I had a friend with his "Engine Guy" come over to help with first start. We had a great conversation where he grilled my on all of my steps to building the engine. It was great to have someone pick everything apart and go step by step to make sure I didn't miss anything. I forgot to tighten the spark plugs in. We found it before cranking.
    Did you know that there are wasps here in Texas that see the small little fuel inlet valve to a Holley carb as a place to build a nest. Yup, they exist and the carb not getting fuel was this very reason. Took the Banjo Bolt out and  found a nice dirt plug blocking fuel.
    We did finally get the engine running. Ran roughly for about 25 minutes. He complemented me on the engine, the way everything looked and how I ran the cables and hoses..... then he looked me in the eye and said "but you SUCK at rebuilding a carburetor". I thought this was funny and we all laughed about it. Offended? No way. Carb was iffy in the first place and I had never done one before.

    My set up currently is a Holley 600 cfm (4160) sitting on a Weiland 8011. I would like to swap over to a new Edelbrock Thunder Series AVS Carburetor 650CMF. What adapters do I need for this swap over? I understand the fuel inlet is on the other side. What do I need to do to connect to a Mustnag linkage and Lokar AOD TV dropdown?
    Is Edelbrock a better choice over Holley or is that a personal preference? I have none.
    BTW engine ran rough, but was music to my ears.

     

    6/29/2014 1:58 PM  #2

    Mochaman
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

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    6/29/2014 4:55 PM  #3

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    What size engine?
    If its a 5.0/302/289......you realize 600 cfm carb is MAX you should go! Maybe a little less if it is stock other-wise. I believe the Eddie carb should bolt right on the "Why-And" manifold. No adaptor is needed. The Eddie carb has the fuel inlet on the pass. side of the engine...toward the rear of the carb. A new fuel line MAY need to be made to get it from the pump to the carb. Steel braid looks and works good or(if your good) you can bend and flair a steel or Alum. tubing line.
    6sal6
    PS.about those wasps..........we call'em dirt-dobbers in Charleston. Won't sting butt will build a nest ANYWHERE!!
     

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/29/2014 5:16 PM  #4

    Technomancer
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    From: Sedgwick, Kansas
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Those are "mud daubers" here in Kansas.  And they are pretty good-natured for wasps.  But if you DO go that extra mile and make 'em mad, they have one of the worst stings ever.  It'll flat take your breath away and make you invent new words.

    "Whatever you are, be a good one." - Abraham Lincoln
     

    6/29/2014 9:52 PM  #5

    hmartin025
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Lived in Central California for 10 years and had a little booger that was called a "leaf roller"
    Any small tube left unattended was shortly filled by the "Leaf Rollers". Any yall heard of these critters?
    Howard 

     

    6/29/2014 10:17 PM  #6

    Mochaman
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    6sally6 I have a 302 bumped up to a 347 Stroker. The Holley I had was a 600 cfm, the one I am looking at is 650 cmf.
    My concern is the gas pedal linkage fitting on an old car. Is there a special bracket? I re-read my Lokar TV cable paperwork and it looks to already have the set up for either a Holley or a Eddie carb.
    They have a kit to bring the fuel rail around the side of the carb through a banjo bolt and a nice hose line and filter set up.
    So is 50 cfm more bad?
     

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    6/30/2014 2:04 AM  #7

    rtmjr13@optonline.net
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Hey Mochaman, RTM here. As far as carb cfm choice, remember this, the 390 (67) came stock with a 600 cfm Holley. I have a 67 390 gt, and the 600 was plenty. I also have a 68, 289 (.030 over) and am running a 480 Holley which is still too big! It all boils down to what type of driving you'll be doing. Go to the Holley website, they have a carb selection section that is pretty cool. You plug in your numbers, rpm you'll likely be using, auto, stick, etc. and I think you'll be amazed at the selection. Hey, they know, in carb world, bigger is not better! Check it out. Hope this helps.

     

    6/30/2014 6:31 AM  #8

    Mochaman
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Holley website came back with a 600 or a 650 cfm.

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    6/30/2014 6:46 AM  #9

    rtmjr13@optonline.net
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    holley came back with a 600-650? That seems awful high for a 302! what did you put in for operational rpm? Are you racing the car? I put in the numbers for a .030 over 390, 4000 maximum rpm and that came back 600-650 cfm. What were your numbers?

     

    6/30/2014 7:02 AM  #10

    Bullet Bob
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    What are you gonna do with the car?  If its a drag car and you don't care about everyday driveability...go for the 650.  If you want good all around performance with no off-idle stumble and great street light to street light kick in the pants, keep it at 550 to 600 (550 preferred).  I'm a driver, not a racer so I always preferred a smaller pot due to the off-idle and mid range performance.  Keep in mind that a big pot isn't going to help anything except at high RPM WOT.

    This is why I always ask...is  it a racer, a driver, or a show car?  You can only be a winner in one catagory.

    BB

    Last edited by Bullet Bob (6/30/2014 7:03 AM)

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    6/30/2014 7:10 AM  #11

    rtmjr13@optonline.net
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    RTM here mocha. Hey,I just checked the Holley website, and your 302 came back needing a 390cfm carb. What numbers did you put in, were they real world, or pumped up a little? I guess what I'm trying to say, from experience, is 600-650 is way big. I know people get caught up in the Shelby 289s with the 700 plus cdm carbs, but they are living at way past 7000 rpm. True numbers are important here, ask me how I know. Holley has a nice 480 plus carb that I think would work really nice for you. Good luck which ever way you go,enjoy! ( 67 390gt, acopulco blue, fast back .030 over, edelbrock aluminum heads and intake, 4 spd, 3.25 posi, 4 core rad, 7 blade flex fan.- also 68 289, coupe, meadowlark yellow, .030 over, edelbrock aluminum intake, Holley 489, 3.00 posi rear, 3 row rad, 17" 7 blade flex fan.)

     

    6/30/2014 7:22 AM  #12

    GPatrick
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    I think when you enter 347 rather than 302 that 600 is right in the ballpark - since this is a 347 if I read the posts correctly.  I like the look of a Holley on these motors for some reason - you may want to consider a 600 CFM vac. secondary from Quickfuel - it has better adjustability than a basic Holley including jets in the rear metering plate and the model in the link includes the Ford linkage.  I plan on putting one of these on my truck when I get an intake on it.  http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carburetors-slayer-series/slayer-series-600-cfm-single-inlet-fuel-bowls.html

     

    6/30/2014 8:25 AM  #13

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    I have concerns about the amount of wrap your compressor belt has.  It will be prone to slippage.

    I'm a Holley guy and the one you already own is a good carb.  (when properly assembled !)

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    6/30/2014 8:47 AM  #14

    Mochaman
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    From: Royse City, Texas
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Just contacted Summit and changed my 650 cfm order to a 600 cfm. Opinions and website vary all over the place on the CFM amount. But I actually hold this forum in a much higher regard for actually data. Can't wait to meet you guys and hope to have this ready for the Bash.
    The AC belt configuration is the only one that Vintage Air had brackets that work with the power steering pump.

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    6/30/2014 9:10 AM  #15

    oldracer17
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    I use this formula  for carb size   cfm=max rpm x cubic inch  divided by 3456   gets you pretty close to the size of carb you need.I cannot remember where i got this formula,but have had and used it for years

     

    6/30/2014 9:24 AM  #16

    Mochaman
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    So now for my stupid question of the hour. How do I determine my Max RPM? I guessed at 6000 and came up with 602 using your formula.

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    6/30/2014 10:58 AM  #17

    Bullet Bob
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Mochaman wrote:

    So now for my stupid question of the hour. How do I determine my Max RPM? I guessed at 6000 and came up with 602 using your formula.

    Well, if you left it in neutral and put your  foot to floor until  you discovered max RPM it might see 7500 or  maybe  even 8000 before it went booom. 

    Butt (TS&T), how  far do you normally push it.  For  most street engines 6K is about the usable limit, I think.  Maybe 6500 ocasionally but  If you tune for 6K you're probably gonna get all there is out of that stroker...maybe even down around 5500, depending on the cam.

    Again, is it a racer or a  driver

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    6/30/2014 12:00 PM  #18

    Mochaman
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Driver. So does the Cam set the upper limit? I have a Comp-Cam XE262H-10 working the heartbeat.
    Specs:         Int    Exh
    Adv Dur:     262    270
    Dur @ .050    218    224     Lobe Sep: 110.0
    Valve Lift:    .493    .500

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    6/30/2014 3:38 PM  #19

    rtmjr13@optonline.net
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Mocha, RTM here again. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but if its a driver, 6000 rpm is a push. Next time you are in your car, just normal driving, take it to 4000 rpm and stay for a while, then take it to 6000 rpm, and I will bet that you will be at 4000 or under, more than not. No, the Holley carb selector is not gospel, but it is close. I just want to save you from buying a bunch of carbs, like I have sitting on my shelf. Just trying to help, don't want to sound like a pushy

    ole man, just passing on my experiences.Also, what rear end numbers are you running? That will make a difference too.

    Last edited by rtmjr13@optonline.net (6/30/2014 3:56 PM)

     

    6/30/2014 4:21 PM  #20

    Bullet Bob
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Mochaman wrote:

    Driver. So does the Cam set the upper limit? I have a Comp-Cam XE262H-10 working the heartbeat.
    Specs: Int Exh
    Adv Dur: 262 270
    Dur @ .050 218 224 Lobe Sep: 110.0
    Valve Lift: .493 .500

    Within a whisker, I have the same timing and .050 more lift in my 5.0 with AFR heads.  According to AFR, the cam I have peaks HP at 5700.  With the longer stroke, your's will likely peak HP a bit later but I'll bet it is making so much torque down low that it pulls to 5000 or 5500 so quick, you'll rarely feel the need for more.  A smaller pot will take advantage of the long stroke and good high lift, short duration cam and give great off idle pull. 
    The 600 may be a good low end - high end compromise but  if'n it were me, I'd go for a 500...maybe a 550.

    JMO,

    BB

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    6/30/2014 4:39 PM  #21

    6sally6
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    Not near enough cam!!
    How many of ya'll figgered I'd say that?!
    Install what you have "straight-up" (dot to dot) and I bet it will flatten your eyeballs to 6500rpm...in ever gear!!
    Bet it will have a slight lick to it also.
    Your next big issue is traction!
    6sal6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/30/2014 9:14 PM  #22

    Mochaman
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    Re: Finally got my engine started and did a burn in.

    As always I am blown away by the amount of information and help you find on this forum.  I gathered up all of the sage advice added some chicken bones and tea leaves threw them on the ground and the readings came back Edelbrock 600.

    rtmjr13 I have a 9 inch with 3:55 gears. I have never driven this car. Soon I hope.

    6sally6 just how much is too much cam to you?

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