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12/22/2014 10:42 PM  #1


Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

The other day, I noticed that when bouncing the front suspension up and down on my 65, I heard a clunk on the right side.  I had 600 psi springs in my 65 and never had this issue but recently changed them to hi-po springs, which of course, caused the control arm to angle dowward, due to the taller spring.  The car has the Shelby drop.  Now on a heavy bounce the rear of the right upper control arm hits the frame rail when the car comes up:

It's hard to see in the picture, but the arrow shows where the control arm hits the raised lip on the frame rail.  The control arm on the other side of the car has plenty of clearance and doesn't hit the frame rail.  Have others had this issue, where the upper control arms hits on one side of the car, but the other side clears fine?  Should I just chock it up to 1960s tolerances, notch the lip of the frame rail and call it good?


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12/23/2014 12:37 AM  #2


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Do you have the shock in? That should stop it before hitting the frame rail.

 

12/23/2014 6:57 AM  #3


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Is your UCA pivot centered on that side?  It is probably just side to side differences but it is possible to assemble the pivot off by a thread which moves it 1/8".  The pivots can be offset intentionally on both sides for more caster but both sides need to set the same.

 

12/23/2014 7:31 AM  #4


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Is there an engine in there?   Im thinking once it weighted down and the shock is installed the UCA should come up so it doesn't hit on the frame.

Steve69

 

12/23/2014 8:02 AM  #5


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

David67 wrote:

Do you have the shock in? That should stop it before hitting the frame rail.

I agree with David67... shocks will limit downward travel once installed.
 

 

12/23/2014 10:48 AM  #6


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

GPatrick wrote:

Is your UCA pivot centered on that side? It is probably just side to side differences but it is possible to assemble the pivot off by a thread which moves it 1/8". The pivots can be offset intentionally on both sides for more caster but both sides need to set the same.

I did offset the pivots for more caster, as John at Opentracker advises, when I rebuilt them, but I was careful to mark them L/R so I'm pretty sure they are installed correctly.  I did have to dimple the spring towers slightly to provide enough clearance for the grease fittings though.
 


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12/23/2014 11:03 AM  #7


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

The car is on the ground, engine and drivetrain are in, but the shocks aren't in yet.  Also, the front sheetmetal, radiator and engine accessories, and interior aren't in, so I'm higher than final ride height.

I don't understand how the shocks are a consideration here.  On full droop, the shocks will limit suspension travel, but my issue is that the right side has less clearance between the frame and the UCA so when I jounce the suspension, the right UCA hits the frame.  I know that part of this is due to the Shelby drop, part is due to switching to taller springs, and part is due to biasing the UCAs rearward for more caster.  I also know that when the rest of the car gets assembled, the additional weight will compress the suspension more which will make this less likely to occur - but it may still occur.  So I'm wondering (1) have others seen this kind of clearance issue and do they notice a difference side-to-side, and (2) shoudl I just trim the frame rail lip a bit and call it good, or something more serious?  Thanks.


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12/23/2014 11:25 AM  #8


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

jkordzi wrote:

The car is on the ground, engine and drivetrain are in, but the shocks aren't in yet.  Also, the front sheetmetal, radiator and engine accessories, and interior aren't in, so I'm higher than final ride height.

I don't understand how the shocks are a consideration here.  On full droop, the shocks will limit suspension travel, but my issue is that the right side has less clearance between the frame and the UCA so when I jounce the suspension, the right UCA hits the frame.  I know that part of this is due to the Shelby drop, part is due to switching to taller springs, and part is due to biasing the UCAs rearward for more caster.  I also know that when the rest of the car gets assembled, the additional weight will compress the suspension more which will make this less likely to occur - but it may still occur.  So I'm wondering (1) have others seen this kind of clearance issue and do they notice a difference side-to-side, and (2) shoudl I just trim the frame rail lip a bit and call it good, or something more serious?  Thanks.

  Could you take side view pick showing the lower control arm and upper control arm along with the spindle?

 

Last edited by Steve69 (12/23/2014 11:26 AM)

 

12/23/2014 2:11 PM  #9


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

I think that with the shock mounted the upper control arm cannot drop that low.  However, a slight trim on the frame rail will probably be OK if necessary.  How much do you think you would need to trim?  Hang a shock on it first just to verify.  What other mods are you making on the front?  Adjustable strut rods?  I went with the same mods on the UCA's in part to provide more caster for the Borgeson return to center requirements.

 

12/23/2014 2:17 PM  #10


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Steve69 wrote:

jkordzi wrote:

The car is on the ground, engine and drivetrain are in, but the shocks aren't in yet.  Also, the front sheetmetal, radiator and engine accessories, and interior aren't in, so I'm higher than final ride height.

I don't understand how the shocks are a consideration here.  On full droop, the shocks will limit suspension travel, but my issue is that the right side has less clearance between the frame and the UCA so when I jounce the suspension, the right UCA hits the frame.  I know that part of this is due to the Shelby drop, part is due to switching to taller springs, and part is due to biasing the UCAs rearward for more caster.  I also know that when the rest of the car gets assembled, the additional weight will compress the suspension more which will make this less likely to occur - but it may still occur.  So I'm wondering (1) have others seen this kind of clearance issue and do they notice a difference side-to-side, and (2) shoudl I just trim the frame rail lip a bit and call it good, or something more serious?  Thanks.

  Could you take side view pick showing the lower control arm and upper control arm along with the spindle?

 

Sure - thanks:
 


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12/23/2014 2:29 PM  #11


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

GPatrick wrote:

I think that with the shock mounted the upper control arm cannot drop that low.  However, a slight trim on the frame rail will probably be OK if necessary.  How much do you think you would need to trim?  Hang a shock on it first just to verify.  What other mods are you making on the front?  Adjustable strut rods?  I went with the same mods on the UCA's in part to provide more caster for the Borgeson return to center requirements.

I think I would need to trim about 1/4" off of the lip.  I also have Opentracker's reinforcement and spherical bearing kit on the lower arm and Day's roller kit on the perch.  I've made my own adjustable struts (see my tips/how-to on that).  I haven't bought any shocks for it yet so I can't instal one.  But if I did, and the shock did limit travel when I jounced the fender wouldn't I have a bigger problem?


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12/23/2014 2:39 PM  #12


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Unless we are talking apples and oranges, at the full extension of the shock, it will not allow the upper control arm to drop that low.  I am recovering from hernia surgery yesterday so I can't get out to the garage to measure mine but if you can get someone to measure a shock at full extension from the lower surface of the upper mount to the lower connection to the roller perch you can get an idea of the lowest position of the upper control arm at the limit of travel.  If I remember from when my car was together with the Shelby drop, there was a fair amount of daylight between the bottom of the UCA and the frame when the front end was up in the air.  I'm wondering if the springs are too tall but it is hard to say until the car is a full weight.  Did you have the anti-roll bar installed when you were checking?  Sounds like you are doing the same exact mods that I have done on mine - someday I hope to actually have the car on the ground so I can see how it all works!

 

12/23/2014 2:42 PM  #13


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Do you think with the extra weight of the hood, fender and front end it will not bounce back up so high and hit. Maybe wait til you get all the weight on the car and check the ride height before cutting anything. You my end up cutting the springs a little.


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12/23/2014 2:45 PM  #14


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

Install the shock.  It cannot go anywhere close to the frame rail.  Find another dragon to fight.


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12/23/2014 6:27 PM  #15


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

OK, I'll get some shocks and install them.  Now what about the question of why the difference in clearance between the UCA and frame rail between the left and right side?


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12/24/2014 3:07 PM  #16


Re: Upper control arm hits frame rail on heavy bounce

It can vary depending on how many shims are installed, or how many shims NEED to be installed, or even if the export brace is installed or not.  Shock towers can shift 1/2" or more at the top if a good solid export brace is not in place.  This is not a problem.  Move on to something else.


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