FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

  • Index
  •  » FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion
  •  » Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    • 1 2  Jump to

       

    3/25/2015 4:58 AM  #1

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Hello all,

    I am installing a rack and pinion on my 68 fastback.  It is a Randalls rack (modified GM).  I have Granada spindles and having a difficult time with inner tie rods hitting rack at the very end of travel of the rack.  This only occurs on the Drivers side.  

    I have tried 67/68 Mustang inner tie rods with granada outer tie rods on Granada spindle.
    I have tried 67/68 Mustang inner and outer tie rods with Pro Motorsport bumpsteer kit on Granada spindle
    I have tried 65/66 Mustang inner tie rods with 67/68 Mustang outer tie rods with Pro Motorsport kit on Granada spindle. (this was utilizing the outer hole on the rack designed for 65/66)

    I feel like there is something I am missing as numerous others have used this setup with Granada spindles.  
    All adjustments have been done with front tires raised.  I have not checked clearance with tires on the ground.  I can extend the tie rods out to avoid the clearance issue but am limited severly in turning radius.  Even with the bumpsteer kit.  

    Any suggestions would be great.
    Thanks,
    Gary
     

     

    3/25/2015 8:54 PM  #2

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    So from what I'm gathering it's not the tie rods that's giving you the problem it's the tie Rod connecting shaft.  Pull your tie rods off the center connecting shaft it sounds like to me if the shaft that's giving you the problem.  The rack will have that problem even on the cavaliers and various gm cars I've seen it many of times from fixing friends customers and other peoples cars.

    Last edited by True74yamaha (3/25/2015 8:56 PM)

     

    3/25/2015 11:05 PM  #3

    GP 350
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    From: Snohomish washington
    Registered: 11/09/2013
    Posts: 48

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    What does Randall's say?

     

    3/26/2015 5:46 AM  #4

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Randall seemed to think it was the bumpsteer kit shifting it forward was the issue.  I put the car down on ground before setting toe and this seemed to help with the issue.  Removing the bumpsteer did help also.  Right at the very end of a left turn just prior to hitting steering stop, it still hits the rack frame.  I think if I shift my starting center point to the side im having problems with, I can hit the steering stop before hitting the rack frame.  It may be something with the caster/camber?  

    Thanks for the responses.

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/26/2015 5:51 AM  #5

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    True,
    Yes, it is the connector shaft (adjusting sleeve) that is hitting the frame of the rack.  It only occurs on the Drivers side.  Almost like I need an inner tie rod that has threads located behind the ball joint.  The best combo I came up with was the 67/68 mustang inner tie rods with the granada outer tie rods attached directly to granada spindle without the bumpsteer kit.  The angle of the tie rods seems to be on same path as lower arms so bumpsteer may not be an issue.  It is very close to full stock steering range which is why I was trying the bumpsteer kit.  

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/26/2015 11:05 AM  #6

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Can you post a picture of the rack and the center mounting shaft on the rack? Also with the tires straight ahead, measure tire to fender gap and see if it gets narrower on that drivers side towards the rear.

    Last edited by True74yamaha (3/26/2015 12:40 PM)

     

    3/26/2015 2:56 PM  #7

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Yes, I can do that.  I think most of the problem was related to not having the tires on the ground (with load).  This improved the condition but I am having to shift the rack center point to the drivers side (one-half of steering wheel turn) to get full steering range (stop to stop).

    This forces me to have a longer tie rod connection on one side versus the other.  

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/26/2015 4:51 PM  #8

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    That would work but not in a good way, Bumpsteer will be introduced and could be quite an exstensive amount. This is most commonly introduced when the tie Rod assembly is not the same length as the upper and lower control arms when in movent in travel, thus giving a longer arch. Trust me you'll notice a difference.  That same rack well non modified type gm j rack has been known in the gm community and steering shops to have severe bumpsteer when not parrellel to car and when off set.  I'd check your car for set back first and foremost this will also cause caster problems.  If your rack isn't getting full travel it could also be the center mounting bolts on the rack.  They could either be to tight and binding or you don't have a spacer to space them from protruding into the rack. Also could your rack and pinion cradle be adjusted for centering? These cars can and will sag quite a bit.

    Last edited by True74yamaha (3/26/2015 10:56 PM)

     

    3/26/2015 11:04 PM  #9

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    gwhit wrote:

    Yes, I can do that.  I think most of the problem was related to not having the tires on the ground (with load).  This improved the condition but I am having to shift the rack center point to the drivers side (one-half of steering wheel turn) to get full steering range (stop to stop).

    This forces me to have a longer tie rod connection on one side versus the other.  

    Really if the cars raised or on the ground it won't really alter all that much except on say toe in/out but not by much.  really if you think about it if you have this clearance problem when raised then you'd have that same problem happen if you hit a bump in the road and your suspension traveled. So it must be some other problem.  My guess would by in the rack rack mounting cradle or set back which that could also be caused by adjustable strut rods.

     

    3/27/2015 6:43 AM  #10

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Correct if you hit a bump it would drop but you wouldnt ever have steering at a full turn while this was occuring.  The interference only occurs at the end range at full lock.  I will try to post pictures.  

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 7:52 AM  #11

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Please do.  I will say I realize he really modified the rack making it have the mounts be on the back side but unless he really modified the rack internally alot the there will be steering loss an un modified gm rack similar to what you have puts out about six inches of travel. A stock mustang puts out about a little more than six and a half which will result in the half turn less steering travel.  The bumpsteer kit though should help with the travel depending on the style of that rack as he has like two options if I remember correctly.. If it was me I'd use the matching inner outer and matching sleeves no bump steer kit and see where your at clearance wise then add the bumpkit into the mess and see what happens.  From what his site says that I just looked at said is you will loose halt a turn in radius half inch worth

     

    3/27/2015 11:09 AM  #12

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 11:10 AM  #13

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    This pic is with off ground.  It is much better with wheels on ground and comes up about 5 inches.

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 12:18 PM  #14

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    its a little hard to tell in the pic but I can tell it's hitting that's insane it's that close.  My homebrew custom j rack with stock 65 v8 tie Rods has a good two and a half inches of clearance same as stock. What had Randall had to say about your problem ? It seems like the whole rack and cradle need to be pushed back. Is there any adjustment in the cradle ?

    Last edited by True74yamaha (3/27/2015 2:11 PM)

     

    3/27/2015 12:35 PM  #15

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    True,

    This is looking at the driver side tie rod.  Sorry the pic is not that great.  If the cradle/rack were forward it would give more room.  Randall thought it was due to being off the ground and he was correct to a degree but it still hits it right at the furthest turning point.  If I had an inner tie rod that tracked back some that would also help.  May look at some heim joints and see if thats an option.  This rack has two different mounting points one for the 67/68 and one for 65/66.  I tried both and still had problems.  

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 12:38 PM  #16

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 12:41 PM  #17

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 1:31 PM  #18

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Heims could be an option but do not have a lot of off set unless you get the spacers to go along with them. with using the correct 67 tie Rod mount spacer, which tie rods have you used again from the top?  It doesn't look like to me those are the correct Granada tie rods I could be wrong though.

     

    3/27/2015 2:08 PM  #19

    gwhit
    FYI FORD Member

    Offline

    Registered: 3/25/2015
    Posts: 11

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    They are 68 inners and 75 granada outers. The pic may be when I was trying 68 inners/outers with bumpsteer kit. The best option so far is 68 inners with granada outers on granada spindle. Bumpsteer kit made it worse since it pushed them forward some.

       •Thread Starter
     

    3/27/2015 5:27 PM  #20

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    I'm sure you checked but I would try and loosen up that rack cradle and push it forward as much as possible if it has any adjustment.  As for the tie rods those inners look like they are for a manual steering optioned 68.  I would try a power optioned.  Also hopefully some others will chime in on this thread

     

    3/27/2015 11:06 PM  #21

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Have you checked for set back on your car? This could be the problem

     

    3/28/2015 6:33 PM  #22

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Put back on the wheels lower your car on to the ground with the front wheels relativally straight. Stick your hand inbetween the tire and the fender and see how many you can fit from side to side.

     

    4/01/2015 2:02 PM  #23

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Did you figure out your problem

     

    4/02/2015 12:02 PM  #24

    MS
    Forum Originator

    Offline

    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,349

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    Could you move the longer inner tie rods to the outside and vice versa.  Seems they have a bend that mind help you.
    Also, invest in some billet adjusting sleeves that do not have the clamps on them.  That added room on my TCP rack when the adjusting sleeve clamps were hitting the end of the rack on sharp turns.
     

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    4/02/2015 6:41 PM  #25

    True74yamaha
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

    Offline

    From: Salt Lake City
    Registered: 5/07/2013
    Posts: 2,537

    Re: Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    MustangSteve wrote:

    Could you move the longer inner tie rods to the outside and vice versa.  Seems they have a bend that mind help you.
    Also, invest in some billet adjusting sleeves that do not have the clamps on them.  That added room on my TCP rack when the adjusting sleeve clamps were hitting the end of the rack on sharp turns.
     

     
    Good thought on the sleeves Steve I didnt thunk about that till now lol.  I second that.  On the tie rods would that work? Isn't the taper different for Granada taper for his spindles vs the 68 inners?

     

     

    1 2  Jump to

  • Index
  •  » FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion
  •  »  Randalls Rack and Tie Rod Clearance

    • Board footera


    REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.