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  •  » Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

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    4/05/2015 4:23 PM  #1

    Mochaman
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

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    From: Royse City, Texas
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 1,495

    Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    I've been following some of the discussions over the past month about Pinon Angles and vibration issues in the drive line. I watched all the videos people linked to and decided that since I have a Frankenstein engine and drive train, maybe I should check this out and make sure my set up is within specs.
    I can't remove my H-Pipe and Exhaust so everything had to be done without removing the Drive Shaft.
    Car Jacked up to allow me access. Front end held up on jack stand with front wheels dangling. Rear Axle was sitting on jack stand to get the rear end compressed on the leaf springs.
    Used a Wixey Angle Gauge that I zeroed to the ground. I used the same spot under the car to zero it out. We aren't talked PMEL Lab specifictations here, but I was trying to get everything as closed to zero as possible so the measurements would be relevant to each other.
    On the flat face of the transmission I was at 3.6 deg.
    On the Transmission side of the U Joint side with it sitting on the top it was 3.5 deg.
    On the drive shaft side of the U joint it was 1.8 deg.
    On the drive shaft itself halfway point it was 1.8 deg.
    On the drive shaft side of the rear end U joint it was 1.7 deg.
    On the rear end side of the U joint it was 1.7 deg.
    The last two measurements were used by placing a socket inside of the Caps area of the U joint.
    So now that I have these numbers, what do they mean?
    I have zero vibration at any speeds that I can feel. I do hear a whirring noise coming from uder the car but I think that is just the noise of the drive shaft spinning.
    Am I ok? Did I take the right measurements in the right locations?

    Thank you.
    Happy Easter

     

    4/05/2015 4:27 PM  #2

    Tubo
    2008 BASH V Host

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    From: Ft. Walton Beach, Florida
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,841

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    Mochaman wrote:

    .........what do they mean?
    I have zero vibration at any speeds that I can feel. I do hear a whirring noise coming from uder the car but I think that is just the noise of the drive shaft spinning.
    Am I ok? Did I take the right measurements in the right locations?

    Thank you.
    Happy Easter

    I'm purdy sure Ya answered yer own Question there. I wouldent mess with anything!!

    Corky
     

    If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
     

    4/05/2015 4:32 PM  #3

    Mochaman
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    From: Royse City, Texas
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 1,495

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    Thanks Corky. The car has less than 3000 miles on it, I wasn't sure if the vibrations shows up immediately or over time as things wear out.

       •Thread Starter
     

    4/05/2015 5:36 PM  #4

    BillyC
    I FYI 24-7

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    From: Chesapeake, Va.
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 966

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    Sounds to me like a case of"if it ain't broke don't fix it". I had severe shake with mine at >60 mph it was off by 3 degrees. The most accurate way to measure is of the vertical surface of the trans output shaft and the rearend yoke (. means drive shaft removal) . What you want to achieve with the measurments is two imaginary parallel lines, one thru the trans and one thru the rearend. Since yours isn't vibrating you must be there already but now you know.

    "anyone that stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty"Henry Ford
     

    4/05/2015 10:06 PM  #5

    barnett468
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    Registered: 9/15/2014
    Posts: 770

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    .
    its a mess . . your drive shaft goes uphill from your trans but as mentioned, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

     

    4/06/2015 4:43 AM  #6

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 4,896

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    What everyone else said....it does look like it could use a bit more up angle on the pinion but I wouldn't touch it.  See ya in Sept.

    Barnett:  Why is it a mess?  So the DS goes up from the trans, so does mine.  Up or down, U-joints don't know the difference.  And, from what I can tell, they came from the factory that way.  I'd have to have the rear end up in the air a foot for the DS to point down at the factory six degrees.

    BB

    Last edited by Bullet Bob (4/06/2015 4:56 AM)

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    4/06/2015 9:44 AM  #7

    MS
    Forum Originator

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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,345

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    Definite ABDFI.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    4/08/2015 6:23 PM  #8

    afnid
    FYI Addict

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    From: So Cal
    Registered: 11/23/2014
    Posts: 114

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    One issue that barnett might be seeing..

    Based on my understanding, u-joints also need a minimum angle in order for the bearings to not wear out prematurely.  That is why some OEM manufacturers have rear-ends that are offset, and some even offset the entire engine/trans centerline (dodge?).

    I am sure barnett knows the ideal angle, but maybe something to watch for down the road.
     

     

    4/08/2015 6:45 PM  #9

    barnett468
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    Registered: 9/15/2014
    Posts: 770

    Re: Drive LinePinion Angle measurement attempt

    The pinion should be the same angle as the trans or close to it when it is on level ground at around 60 mph.
     
    As load increases on the driveline ie accelerating and/or going uphill etc, the pinion will rise on a leaf spring suspension . . the greater the load, the greater the rise .  ideally, the pinion might rise up around 1 degree when cruising on the freeway.
     
    The driveshaft angle should be no more than around 2.5 degrees relative to the trans and pinion . . if it is like 4 degrees, it can vibrate at higher speeds.
     
    As afnid mentioned, the drive shaft should not be in direct alignment with the trans or pinion, otherwise the u joints will not rotate which will cause premature wear.
     
    his trans is down 3.5 - 3.6 . . his pinion is 1.7 . . when he is cruising his pinion is likely rising at least 1 degree which makes it 2.7 . . this is now .8 - .9 less than the trans which is not perfect but certainly acceptable for a street car . . also, this would make the driveshaft run downhill from the trans by 1 degree in cruise mode which is maybe the minimum amount rquired for the u joints . . this would explain why it doesn't vibrate.

    Check this cool vid out
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4
     

    Last edited by barnett468 (4/08/2015 6:56 PM)

     

     

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