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I've had to pull my 289 due to weeping frost plugs I've done the big ones on the side of the block a few times in the past on other engines and ashamedly must admit to warping a couple they never seem to just pop in as you'd like and if they go out of alignment even a little it magnifies quickly. I dry-fit them in the past and had no issues but is it better to use a sealer? just hi temp silicone? How do I get these little tiny ones out? (and back in?) I've never seen the ones in the heads rot out should I get a complete set and do them all or just the block? The work of installing them will be done while it hangs off the engine hoist as I dont have an engine stand will I have better luck rolling the engine on its side? what is a good tool to use?
- Thanks!
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No sealer is needed. It all gets wiped off 100% as the plugs go in anyway, so it will just float around the water jackets until it finds somethign to clog up. I put a thin layer of red loctite on them, but I still believe none of it gets to where it will do any good. Just habit, I guess.
Use a large socket to drive them in square. Big wooden dowel works also, and you can even shape the end of it to best fit the plugs. Do not hammer on the flange. Something large enough to just barely fit in the cavity works best.
I prefer the shallow plugs like the factory used, and always use BRASS freeze plugs. You won't have to ever worry about them again. Do all ten plugs. Be sure to get the old ones out and don't just knock them into the water passage. To remove, strike the plug close to the flange (not ON the flange or you risk nicking the bore. A drift punch works great. Idea is to make it rotate 90 degrees in the hole, so half is iinside the block and half is outside the block. Then grab it with vise-grips and pull it out. Clean the bore with 180 grit but do not remove metal!
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What Steve said plus instead of red loctite, there is a permatex product called #1 I believe, it is a hardening sealer. Our shop uses both, depending if there are some imperfections to fill in the core plug bore. We have core plug installation tool, which is slightly better than a large socket. Just be careful not to cave in the center and collapse the core plug while installing. If you have a big enough socket, it shouldn't be an issue at all. If by the little core plugs you are talking about the oil galley plugs, about the diameter of a dime. I would leave them alone unless you have an oil leak or are rebuilding the engine. Typically they are tapped for pipe thread in the back of the block, but I have noticed on some 60's era 390's that are in the shop at the moment that they have core plugs installed. When we strip the block down, the galley plug holes end up getting tapped for 1/4 in pipe plugs. To remove the small core plugs we drill a small hole in the center and use a slide hammer. On a rebuild this isnt a big issue, but on an engine that is running and not intended to be torn down, this is something you do not want to do. As it will put metal shavings directly into oil passages. That is why I recommend leaving the galley plugs alone.
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falconeh wrote:
I've had to pull my 289 due to weeping frost plugs I've done the big ones on the side of the block a few times in the past on other engines and ashamedly must admit to warping a couple they never seem to just pop in as you'd like and if they go out of alignment even a little it magnifies quickly. I dry-fit them in the past and had no issues but is it better to use a sealer? just hi temp silicone? How do I get these little tiny ones out? (and back in?) I've never seen the ones in the heads rot out should I get a complete set and do them all or just the block? The work of installing them will be done while it hangs off the engine hoist as I dont have an engine stand will I have better luck rolling the engine on its side? what is a good tool to use?
- Thanks!
I recommend the brass and not the steel, as I think they last longer. I coat the sides and back lightly with the black tar-like aviation gasket sealer. There are special drivers, but you can use an appropriate socket and short extension (that you don't mind hammering). Drive them in until the lip of the plug fully contacts the block, stop, don't look at it anymore and move on. If one goes in sideways, throw it away and use another. If you don't have a stand, I recommend you lower the block to the ground (careful w/ the pan). To remove the old ones, I use an old sharpened screw driver and punch a hole in the center and then lever them out. Never drive the old ones into the block and leave them in the water jacket. I don't recommend replacing any that don't appear to have issues, unless you're doing a complete rebuild and the block/heads are going to be hot tanked.
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MS described the method I use! Use a "Heel Bar" instead of vice grips to lever crosswise soft plugs out. Saves skinned knuckles!!! LOL
Howard
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Where are you located? I have an Engine Stand you can have if you wanna come and get it. I'm in the Dallas Area.
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I agree with Mr Steve on the the install method, Ya know this reminds me I have a 62 T-bird out back I parked 5 years ago because the freeze plugs had a leak haven't got around to changin'em out ( its a scary job) the leaking ones behind the left motor mount, definatly use the brass.
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I'm such a stickler for correctness that I've just got to post this. They aren't freeze plugs or frost plugs. They aren't there in case the coolant freezes. Properly they're "core plugs" becauswe they plug the core holes in the block. These are the holes where the sand cores where drained out of the block casting at the foundry. The water jacket is created by a sand core that the block is then cast around, and there has to be a way to remove the sand once the casting is done. Then those holes need to be plugged to seal the water jacket.
I can tell you from first hand experience they don't save an engine if the coolant freezes. Yes, I've seen them get pushed out when it happens, but I've also seen them not budge and the block end up with a crack that looks like the Grand Canyon. Don't let the coolant freeze; its not worth the risk.
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TKOPerformance wrote:
I'm such a stickler for correctness that I've just got to post this. They aren't freeze plugs or frost plugs. They aren't there in case the coolant freezes. Properly they're "core plugs" becauswe they plug the core holes in the block. These are the holes where the sand cores where drained out of the block casting at the foundry. The water jacket is created by a sand core that the block is then cast around, and there has to be a way to remove the sand once the casting is done. Then those holes need to be plugged to seal the water jacket.
I can tell you from first hand experience they don't save an engine if the coolant freezes. Yes, I've seen them get pushed out when it happens, but I've also seen them not budge and the block end up with a crack that looks like the Grand Canyon. Don't let the coolant freeze; its not worth the risk.
I can vouch for that as well. I lost a 409 in Pennsylvania when I was 16 because the block cracked straight across all the freeze (I mean core) plugs when the coolant, which didn't have enough anti-freeze, froze one very cold winter night.
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Argh! R.I.P. mighty W-motor, R.I.P.
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MachTJ i'm talking specifically about this it looks like its leaking water (not oil) its on the LH side of the block at the back near the pan I definitely dont want to mess with the oil gallery plugs though is this one?.... MustangSteve thanks again for the great advice....Mach1Ron you're awesome wish I could come get it
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TKOPerformance wrote:
I'm such a stickler for correctness that I've just got to post this. They aren't freeze plugs or frost plugs. They aren't there in case the coolant freezes. Properly they're "core plugs" becauswe they plug the core holes in the block. These are the holes where the sand cores where drained out of the block casting at the foundry. The water jacket is created by a sand core that the block is then cast around, and there has to be a way to remove the sand once the casting is done. Then those holes need to be plugged to seal the water jacket.
I can tell you from first hand experience they don't save an engine if the coolant freezes. Yes, I've seen them get pushed out when it happens, but I've also seen them not budge and the block end up with a crack that looks like the Grand Canyon. Don't let the coolant freeze; its not worth the risk.
I did not know that about the sand in the casting process. But I did know that these plugs don't always break loose in case of a freeze. Thanks for the info there buddy. Appreciate it
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well I did some light picking and scraping in there pulled out a lot of loose rust and it kept getting deeper there are threads around the inside so I stopped cleaning not sure of whats in there it doesnt look like the other side which has a threaded plug removable with an allen key bit
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The allen keyed plug on the side of the block is a drain plug. There should be a drain plug on both sides of the block as the only way the coolant reaches one side to the other is through the intake and water pump. If you keep digging crud out and eventually a huge stream of coolant comes out is because it was missing the drain plug. Which is amazing on a running engine, but I have seen crud caked holes when stripping blocks, just not one missing the plug completely and holding coolant on a running engine. Oil galley plugs are at the front and back of the engine, not on the sides.
Does that hole look like it is tapped at all? It looks suspicious. If it is indeed a drain hole, it should be tapped for 1/4 or 3/8 pipe thread.
Just re read your post where you say there are threads. I don't think there is anything tapped larger than a 3/8 or 7/16 bolt on the side of a 289, unless it is pipe thread. I've never had a 289 but I imagine they are virtually the same as a 302. If the hole is larger than a 3/8 bolt, its probably the drain plug for that side of the block. If thats the case you could probably re tap it after the crud is pulled out and the coolant drains out. Apply some sealer to a pipe plug and tighten it up. If your cooling system is full, alot of coolant will come out and you will need a refill, probably want some catch pans etc.
Last edited by MachTJ (5/26/2015 5:59 PM)
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Yep, its a block drain. The plug is probably junk, and you'll likley play hell trying to get it out. Its probably going to need the blue wrench, and even then I'm betting a bolt extractor is going to end up being your friend. I prefer the extractors that are square and have flutes to cut into the remainder of the plug. That's what I use to remove those plugs when stripping down a block. For the replacment plug use some sealer like liquid Teflon or Hylomar, and a brass plug is a good idea too. I actually usually install draincocks in thse holes, so I can drain the coolant from the block when changing the coolant or working on the motor (especially good if you even need to pull a head).
Last edited by TKOPerformance (5/28/2015 5:09 AM)
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Thanks guys so either the plug is non existant and just crud has been plugging it up or its disintegrated i'll try an extractor but the threads look pretty degraded too
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If you keep poking around and can not get through, a piece of the pipe plug is somehow left in the hole. If you poke around and get through, basically all the coolant from that side of the block will pour out. Which is not a big deal if you were going to replace the core plugs anyways. If there are some threads left and no leftover pieces of a pipe plug , run a 1/4" NPT (national pipe thread) tap into the hole. I'm doubting its a 3/8 pipe plug by glancing at a 302 that is currently in the shop. You shouldn't be able to run the tap in very far because it will hit the cylinder wall eventually. Just keep in mind that pipe thread taps are tapered and the farther you run the tap in, the larger the hole will be causing the plug to thread in farther.
As an observation, it just looks like there used to be a plug in there and all the hard crud is just plugging the hole. I can't see anything that looks like drill marks or anything that looks like a plug got stuck and someone tried to drill it out, and no hex marks for the allen socket. If you take a small screw driver and tap it in, it should knock the crud loose. I had a small block chebby that I stripped this week that had crud behind the drain plugs that looks similar to your picture. I just poke the junk out and will run a tap through the holes, before it gets cleaned.
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