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5/22/2013 3:26 PM  #1


Very informative suspension video................



 

Last edited by Derek (5/22/2013 4:06 PM)


It's hard to type "funny"
 

5/23/2013 10:48 AM  #2


Re: Very informative suspension video................

That is an excellent discussion of the many design flaws of the Mustang suspension. 

Also of note was the comments about installing coil-over springs acting upon the lower control arm.  It transfers all the suspension loads to the lower control arm inner bushing, and that bushing is mounted between two pieces of 16 gauge steel, not really capable of handling those loads. 

That guy has obviously done his homework.  I just wish he talked a little faster!  I kept watching, hoping he was going to get to the solutions, but I guess that is a different video!

Thanks for posting that.  EVERYONE who owns a Mustang needs to watch it.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/23/2013 1:22 PM  #3


Re: Very informative suspension video................

There was a gentleman that asked a week or so about these guy's strut kits. After listening to that video maybe their strut kit is good stuff?

 

5/23/2013 3:01 PM  #4


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I wish he would of showed how there stuff makes there cars ride better than the stock suspension.

Steve69

 

5/23/2013 3:19 PM  #5


Re: Very informative suspension video................

Steve69 wrote:

I wish he would of showed how there stuff makes there cars ride better than the stock suspension.

Steve69

 Well here's another one

 


It's hard to type "funny"
     Thread Starter
 

5/23/2013 10:14 PM  #6


Re: Very informative suspension video................

OK, now I am a bit confused.  After he went on about how mounting the spring to act on the lower control arm was not good because of the way it transferred forces to the LCA pivot bushing, I wen to their site to look at the details. Their strut system acts on the lower control arm, exactly what he said was not good!  And it uses a stock LCA.  This looks like really good stuff, and that guy knows alot about the suspensions---way more than I ever will--- but why would he make those comments about the spring on the LC being bad, then designing his strut that way?  I suppose everything is a compromise.

Another thing some of you that like bearings on suspension stuff will like, but I question longevity, is the Torrington bearing atop the strut, taking hit after hit from road bumps.  I wonder how long those last?  It makes sense for rotation, but a bearing that takes hit after hit when not rotating will ultimately brinnell the bearing race, wouldn't you think?  (Like going straight along a very bumpy road)  Maybe the shock takes care of it...


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/23/2013 10:54 PM  #7


Re: Very informative suspension video................

MustangSteve wrote:

--- but why would he make those comments about the spring on the LC being bad, then designing his strut that way? ...

I've been reading up on their front struts, they make an electric PS unit for the 71-73 Mustangs It fits the Aussie Falcons too. IF what I understand is true, they the box the LCA extensivly, and the strut mounts on the steering knuckle.

Corky
 

Last edited by Tubo (5/23/2013 10:55 PM)


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

5/24/2013 7:24 AM  #8


Re: Very informative suspension video................

MustangSteve wrote:

OK, now I am a bit confused.  After he went on about how mounting the spring to act on the lower control arm was not good because of the way it transferred forces to the LCA pivot bushing, I wen to their site to look at the details. Their strut system acts on the lower control arm, exactly what he said was not good!  And it uses a stock LCA.  This looks like really good stuff, and that guy knows alot about the suspensions---way more than I ever will--- but why would he make those comments about the spring on the LC being bad, then designing his strut that way?  I suppose everything is a compromise.

Another thing some of you that like bearings on suspension stuff will like, but I question longevity, is the Torrington bearing atop the strut, taking hit after hit from road bumps.  I wonder how long those last?  It makes sense for rotation, but a bearing that takes hit after hit when not rotating will ultimately brinnell the bearing race, wouldn't you think?  (Like going straight along a very bumpy road)  Maybe the shock takes care of it...

 Agree with Tubo..mounting the spring to the lower control arm acts like a cantilever (that whole motion ratio thing) Pushing into the frame rail. Where as mounting directly to the spindle transfers all the energy direcly into the shock,spring,and top of the shock tower..


It's hard to type "funny"
     Thread Starter
 

5/24/2013 9:37 AM  #9


Re: Very informative suspension video................

http://www.gatewayperformancesuspension.com/


These guys helped develop this stuff.   They started on their own because of all the problems of unfilled orders of RRS and such.   You can google complaints about RRS and read about that.  

They kind of left Jason and Lonnie high and dry holding the bag for whatever reasons.  And left them to find a way to fill orders.  I believe these two entities have gone their separate ways now.  Some of those RRS suspension videos are of the undersides of Jason and Lonnies cars, though.  

Just saying if anyone is seriously looking into buying this type of suspension, give Jason a call.  

Yes, I understand this is a shameless plug, but Jason and Lonnie also have a business in America.  


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

5/24/2013 10:42 AM  #10


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I should not try to think late at night...  My last post questioned why their system loads the LCA.  DOH !!!  It doesn't.  It loads the spindle forces straight to the shock tower as the car is designed for.  I guess my off-the-cuff logic was if the spring did not act on the UCA, then it must be acting on the LCA.  Actually it is neither.   I kind of like their design.  I will have to check out the other guys' stuff.  Where can I take a look at it?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/24/2013 1:41 PM  #11


Re: Very informative suspension video................

MustangSteve wrote:

I should not try to think late at night...  My last post questioned why their system loads the LCA.  DOH !!!  It doesn't.  It loads the spindle forces straight to the shock tower as the car is designed for.  I guess my off-the-cuff logic was if the spring did not act on the UCA, then it must be acting on the LCA.  Actually it is neither.   I kind of like their design.  I will have to check out the other guys' stuff.  Where can I take a look at it?

 There's an article in my june (Mustang Monthly) about what different suspensions are available for early mustangs of the some 13 listed 3 of them were coil over strut designs. RRS/Gateway, AJE,and Fatman. The problem I see with Both, AJE & Fatman. Is they both use 94-95 mustang spindles which YOU, have to supply. And who knows if the geometry or "Ackerman angle" is correct? Also there designs rely on a big heavy K-member you have to cut,drill,and fit, maybe weld? Where as the RRS is a direct bolt in,and probably weighs half as much?


It's hard to type "funny"
     Thread Starter
 

5/24/2013 1:46 PM  #12


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I am going to try to give those guys a call next week. I wonder if COBRA brakes would work with their kits? Seems to me those Baer brakes, while nice, are adding quite a bit of cost to the kit.
 

 

5/24/2013 2:12 PM  #13


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I have the Fatman kit on my mustang and it is a complete bolt on kit. The K-member plate on the bottom actually stiffens the whole front end. You don't modify anything on it. All bolt holes lined up perfectly.
The base kit doesn't have the spindles in it, but if you pay the extra 1500 you get everything needed in the kit to bolt up without have to modify the spindles or the steer unit. The ackerman angles is correct and there are plenty of adjustments to marry this to my car. I am very happy with the company. I had a slight issue with the disc caliper mounting plates being slightly too thick. They paid for the shipping both way to have me send them the two plates via FedEx. I sent on a Monday and had my parts back on Friday. Their direction's pamphlet could be a little better, but every question I have sent them has gotten a quick and great reply.
I don't have an engine in my car so I haven't completely finished the install where I need to tighten everything fully down on the swing arms and sway bars until I have full engine weight on the front.
Theses are pictures I took on the beginning of the install.

 

5/24/2013 3:26 PM  #14


Re: Very informative suspension video................

Does Fatman use a later model spindle or their own design?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/24/2013 10:04 PM  #15


Re: Very informative suspension video................

1994 – 2004 Mustang spindles.
From their latest website. The 1979 – 1993 Mustang struts are used on the 1994 – 2004 spindles to allow more drop and camber adjustment.

 

5/25/2013 2:34 PM  #16


Re: Very informative suspension video................

Using those spindles in a rear steer configuration... Seems like the ackerman would be infinite since the steering arms are almost parallel to car centerline.  Maybe with a rack, that is not so critical?  I always wondered how ackerman was obtained with that type spindle...


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/25/2013 8:33 PM  #17


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I have always liked the ron Morris performance kits, very well made.  If I wanted to remove the shock towers, the Maritza chassis kits are very nice. They don't get a lot of press, but make nice stuff. I like that his have frame tubes that come up from the frame rails, curve up to where the shock towers would be and tie into the door frame post.  He also custom makes the crossmember for whichever engine configuration and pre-made inner engine bay/ fender panels to replace shock towers, etc. Not cheap but well made and designed. ....maybe one day.

 

5/25/2013 8:34 PM  #18


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I have always liked the ron Morris performance kits, very well made.  If I wanted to remove the shock towers, the Martz chassis kits are very nice. They don't get a lot of press, but make nice stuff. I like that his have frame tubes that come up from the frame rails, curve up to where the shock towers would be and tie into the door frame post.  He also custom makes the crossmember for whichever engine configuration and pre-made inner engine bay/ fender panels to replace shock towers, etc. Not cheap but well made and designed. ....maybe one day.

 

5/28/2013 8:02 AM  #19


Re: Very informative suspension video................

.

Mochaman wrote:

I have the Fatman kit on my mustang and it is a complete bolt on kit. The K-member plate on the bottom actually stiffens the whole front end. You don't modify anything on it. All bolt holes lined up perfectly.
The base kit doesn't have the spindles in it, but if you pay the extra 1500 you get everything needed in the kit to bolt up without have to modify the spindles or the steer unit. The ackerman angles is correct and there are plenty of adjustments to marry this to my car. I am very happy with the company. I had a slight issue with the disc caliper mounting plates being slightly too thick. They paid for the shipping both way to have me send them the two plates via FedEx. I sent on a Monday and had my parts back on Friday. Their direction's pamphlet could be a little better, but every question I have sent them has gotten a quick and great reply.
I don't have an engine in my car so I haven't completely finished the install where I need to tighten everything fully down on the swing arms and sway bars until I have full engine weight on the front.
Theses are pictures I took on the beginning of the install.

http://www.streetortrack.com/Street-or-Track-Front-Coilover-System-pr-24491.html. 

I was looking at the Fatman System but I wanted something I could install without removing the engine.  I had heard there was some issues with Long Tube Headers Clearance.   Let us know when you have it on the road and what you think.  I think it looks like a Great System and I like that you can use OEM Mustang Parts except for the Rack.     I ended up going witht he Street or Track System.   Mine drives great but I think its slightly on the rough side as far as ride Quality.  It seems to be getting better with the more miles I put on.        
 

Last edited by Steve69 (5/28/2013 8:10 AM)

 

5/28/2013 1:05 PM  #20


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I went to the [url=http://www.gatewayperformancesuspension.com%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Ffyi.boardhost.com%2Fsearch.php%3Faction%3Dshow_new&title=FYI%20FORD%20MustangSteve's%20Ford%20Mustang%20Forum%20%2F%20Very%20informative%20suspension%20video................&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatewayperformancesuspension.com%2F&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13697677226088]http://www.gatewayperformancesuspension.com[/url] website to check it out.  I used their contact form to send them some questions, but I have not heard back from them.  I know it was a long weekend, but when I am trying to sell parts, I keep on top of my emails...

Their low budget kit says NON ADJUSTABLE, but does that include caster, camber and ride height?  or does that mean the shock is non-adjustable?  I don't think I want it if the ride height is not adjustable.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/28/2013 1:11 PM  #21


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I think there referring to the (adjustable) and (non adjustable) coil over strut/spring


It's hard to type "funny"
     Thread Starter
 

5/28/2013 1:20 PM  #22


Re: Very informative suspension video................

MustangSteve wrote:

I went to the [url=http://www.gatewayperformancesuspension.com%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Ffyi.boardhost.com%2Fsearch.php%3Faction%3Dshow_new&title=FYI%20FORD%20MustangSteve's%20Ford%20Mustang%20Forum%20%2F%20Very%20informative%20suspension%20video................&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatewayperformancesuspension.com%2F&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13697677226088]http://www.gatewayperformancesuspension.com[/url] website to check it out.  I used their contact form to send them some questions, but I have not heard back from them.  I know it was a long weekend, but when I am trying to sell parts, I keep on top of my emails...

Their low budget kit says NON ADJUSTABLE, but does that include caster, camber and ride height?  or does that mean the shock is non-adjustable?  I don't think I want it if the ride height is not adjustable.

I sent Jason a message on FB.  to let him know.  


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

5/28/2013 3:11 PM  #23


Re: Very informative suspension video................

I had sent Gateway a email back about 6 months ago and no one got back to me either.   I did see a price guide for there front end kit and I want to say it was around $3K.  Which I thought was a little pricey.  I was more interested in there 69 Mustang that they installed the 5.0 Coyote in and if they sold Engine mount kits.   They had trimmed the shock towers.  

Steve69

 

5/28/2013 5:31 PM  #24


Re: Very informative suspension video................

If they will not return emails when they are trying to sell you parts, what kind of service are you going to get AFTER THEY HAVE YOUR MONEY.

I was interested in the basic kit for $1600, but it said non-adjustable.  What does THAT mean?  I am losing interest real fast.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/28/2013 6:48 PM  #25


Re: Very informative suspension video................

To me it looks like the Super Stock ride hight isn't adjustable.   Must just be a Strut that is set with out the adjusters at the bottom of strut.   Im not sure what you would do if your ride hight is correct.  Cut the spring?

Part #GPS1000  -  Coil over strut kit, non-adjustable strut leg for ride height, and non-adjustable strut inserts. Brake kit not included. This kit must be used with drum to disc brake conversion kits.  $1595.00
Super Stock GT
Part #GPS1005 - All the benefits of the Super Stock system but with brakes and a strut leg that is adjustable for ride height.  $2495.00

 

Board footera


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