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10/09/2015 2:37 PM  #1


1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

I have a 1966 mustang with a 1989 5.0L engine out of a 1989 mustang. When I bought the car, it already had the motor and wiring done, it also had a slight surging problem. As I upgraded the parts ie: trick flow heads with 1.6 RR, stage one TFS cam, track heat intake, 75 mm TB, 42 lb inj, 80mm mass air meter, MSD ignition and distributor, Vortech supercharger, and Anderson PMS series IV tunner, i thought I could fix the surging problem with the tuner Boy I was wrong....  I could never get rid of the surging. It would surge at the stop from 600 RPS to 1400 RPS sometimes dying. I have tried a different PC, cleaning the IAC, changing the ECT sensor cleaning the Salt shakers, the list goes on and on..  HELP PLEASE




 

 

10/09/2015 2:59 PM  #2


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

     Thread Starter
 

10/09/2015 3:27 PM  #3


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

Firstly check for vaccum leaks.
Throughly clean the Salt & Pepper shaker connections. Nevermind Ya done that.
Those 42lb injectors are way overkill unless your sprayin the heck out of that thing or Turboin or Super chargin. Nevermind it's Super charged!!
 Do you use a Moates Quarterhorse or have a chip??

Tubo


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

10/09/2015 3:34 PM  #4


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

I currently have an Anderson PMS Series IV tuner, with a basic tune... I can't find anyone around here to tune it for me; the nearest person is four hours away in San Anotonio.

     Thread Starter
 

10/09/2015 3:40 PM  #5


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

reyesjo wrote:

I currently have an Anderson PMS Series IV tuner, with a basic tune... I can't find anyone around here to tune it for me; the nearest person is four hours away in San Anotonio.

 I know what Ya mean, I'm lucky to have friends with tuning experience.
I'm not familiar with the Anderson PMS tuners, though Anderson is generally v good gear.
Next option is to make friends/seek help on the Tuner Forums.
The Stang do look good though.

Tubo
 


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

10/09/2015 6:10 PM  #6


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

Tried opening up the throttle body butterfly a half turn or so on the curb idle screw?  I know "it says" you are not supposed to do that, but I have direct experience with two that benefitted from doing that.  I think the bigger cams require more air than the idle valve can deliver.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

10/09/2015 8:19 PM  #7


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

MustangSteve wrote:

Tried opening up the throttle body butterfly a half turn or so on the curb idle screw?  I know "it says" you are not supposed to do that, but I have direct experience with two that benefitted from doing that.  I think the bigger cams require more air than the idle valve can deliver.

What MS says...though I hate to admit it.  That solved my "refuse to idle" problem at the bash this year and now that we're home at 6000 feet it seems to be very happy.  Give it a try, can't hurt.  Just keep track of how much you turn the screw in.

BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

10/09/2015 9:03 PM  #8


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

When I had a Ford B cam my car like to surge more than to my liking. After researching it a bit I added an IAC adjuster plate and it worked like a champ I've since changed the cam to something a bit better suited for my needs and it works even better. I think Ford also used these as part of a TSB for idle issues.

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-9939A/1986-93-Mustang-50L-58L-Idle-Air-Control-Iac-Adjuster

[Edit] like Steve mentions about the IAC valve limitations, this plate adjusts to allow more or less air into the intake at idle irrespective of the IAC.

Last edited by Jeff in GA (10/09/2015 9:07 PM)


1965 Mustang 2+2 EFI
 

10/10/2015 10:22 PM  #9


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

What type of engine fan do you have and do you have an open element air filter located close to the cooling fan?

Buffeting by the fan blades can cause air pressure pulses on the intake tract that will mess with the Mass Air meter readings.

 

10/11/2015 7:31 AM  #10


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

I will try turning the throttle body butterfly a half turn today, then set the TPS voltage, also I never thought about the fan causing issues, don't recall the brand it was thinnest one I can find to be able to run the supercharger pulley. I will try unplugging the power to see if it still surges... thanks for all the comments.

     Thread Starter
 

10/11/2015 3:39 PM  #11


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

Airflow from the fan can definitely cause idle surge with an open element air cleaner.  I always ran a fenderwell air intake to avoid this. 

Is the MAF calibrated for the injectors?

How is the system setup as far as beign able to read positive manifold pressure?  A stock 5.0 MAF won't work in boosted applications.  We used to swap them for one from a 2.3 turbo EECIV setup, but that's using stock electronics. 

 

10/12/2015 3:21 PM  #12


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

I used to race Fox bodies and there are a lot of things you can disconnect to make sure you are not chasing a bunch of demons.
Optional items to get the car idling:
IAC
EGR
O2
MAF

Disconnect all of them and your car should still start and idle. It won't be happy, but it will still work. If it doesn't, you need to bump up the curb idle speed on the TB. Remove the IAC and make sure it is clean, but that it works. If the surging magicly went away while in limp mode (due to the disconnected sensors, I would start looking at them as your source).

In my experience it is usually caused by the TPS and the IAC fighting each other. I have had two TPS sensors that worked, but had a dirty signal. If you watched the voltage as you slowly opened the throtle, it would jump back and forth instead of a gradual increase. I have had several IACs stick open, or get clogged with crud from the valve cover.

Don't rely on the tuner to "fix" and peculiarities of the EEC-IV, only use it to adjust your fuel and timing curves. The other items are fairly well managed with the stock tables.
BobN
 

 

10/12/2015 3:47 PM  #13


Re: 1966 mustang with EFI surging problem help please

Besides everything else that's been said.

Do you have the check engine light hooked up?

Are you getting any codes?

How do you have the bypass plumbed?

What's your fuel pressure at idle?

Do you have access to a wideband?

Will that tuner allow you to adjust the MAF curve?

If so do you have the flowsheet for the MAF?

What did you set the hi and low slope injector settings to?

That should be enough for now

 

Board footera


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