JSHarvey wrote:

I think the fuel sump is a great idea.  $400 bucks though seems a bit much.  What would it take to make a DIY one?  Maybe use a Ford Contour fuel pump and re-purpose a "catch can" type of container to hold the fuel. Is it doable?

There are a few options out there.  I like the idea of the FITech item, although it may be a bit blingy for my taste.  Edelbrock has a similar idea at $565, that is plastic.  May not be the best solution in a crumple zone under the hood, but its fuel level is controlled by a float, needle & seat, like a carb.  It can be fed by the typical mechanical fuel pump.  I LIKE that idea.  Some options use dual fuel pumps, and if that low pressure pump constantly runs, due to a return type system, it may be prone to early retirement. 

I have (boxed up somewhere in the garage) a BC Broncos efi fuel canister solution, for WAAAAY less than $400.  It seemed to be a feasible item, so I picked one up a couple years ago when I was thinking efi for the 66.

http://www.bcbroncos.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=131_108&products_id=119
 

Last edited by TimC (11/20/2015 11:10 AM)

Maybe it's just me, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable with that big can o' gas sitting up front behind the radiator support.  I understand the simplicity, but if I'm going to do EFI, I'm going with a sump tank with the pump inside.

John

Bob, I was thinking of Glen's aluminum tank under the car when I wrote that, but did not take the idea farther than under the hood.  It would require a second fuel line from the mechanical pump back to the aluminum tank mounted under the rear of the car, but the carb bowl bolted to the side of that tank rather than an electric low pressure pump would keep it full, and a return line to the tank would not be needed because the float would keep it from overfilling.  Basically use the Holley bowl/float/needle/seat as a control valve to keep the tank from overfilling. 

I really like the idea of not having an electric low pressure pump, because with the original design using that pump, they pump continuously with no head pressure and that causes noise and premature pump failure.  I think I went through three of those pumps in a row on Cara's coupe before I finally found one that got Janick halfway home to Washington.  He got to replace the next one.   The EFI system on her car worked flawlessly except for that low pressure pump being used to keep the sump tank full.  I think maybe some restriction to flow on the return line to the tank is needed to give the low pressure pump some head pressure to pump against.  That might quiet them down a bit.  

But, I like the float system a lot better.  It is a proven design and could easily just be bolted to the side of that tank with the high pressure pump inside the tank.  After making the drawing, maybe a side pivot Holley bowl would work better.  Takes less room.  I suppose a recess could be made in the side of the tank for the bowl to fit into.

MS, I like that!  I am going to make one with one of my left over SU float assemblies. It should have a nice clean look with the float right in the top of the tank. A two or three PSI residual valve will be a nice touch too. The newer solid state SU style pumps would be a good choice for the low pressure pump too since they quit pumping at set pressure. 

Steve,
I really like your design idea on this. It could mount where the factory windshield wiper bag would go. (I never use it anyway), giving it close proximity to the mechanical fuel pump and the main line from the rear tank.

HenryJ
 

I think we still need a vent in the surge tank so the high pressure pump does not pull a vacuum and quit working. I am running a vent line to the main fuel tank.

KM wrote:

I have a question on float , If you use the mechanical pump would you need a float ? Build a aluminum tank with no vent .You would need to purge the air out but the mechanical pump would just dead head right once the tank was full or does the tank need a air space for fuel return? 

 
The vent serves a couple of purposes: 1) it vents non-condensables (air) to keep the sump tank from gas capping and the high pressure pump losing suction, and 2) by venting back to the fuel tank it keeps the sump tank at one atmosphere eliminating the need for a pressure vessel for the sump tank which would be a whole 'nother level of complexity and cost. Atmospheric tank = good; pressure vessel = bad. Think how far you could shoot gasoline through a pinhole leak with the tank pressurized to 7 psig.

Last edited by Hornman (11/21/2015 4:39 PM)

This is the one I had on Cara's coupe.  Buzek built the tank.


Sure is alot easier to just buy the aeromotive phantom pump and stick it in the tank.  Eliminates alot of plumbing and the extra pump, whether it is the engine driven mechanical pump or a low pressure electric pump.  The downfall of the sump system I used was there was zero head pressure on the little low pressure pump.  It just pumped all the time with no head pressure.

Not a spokes person for FiTech...LOL  But Summit is selling them now and there is a $100 mail in rebate until  053116.  Seriously thinking of buying one. 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fif-30002

I have decided I am going to go with fuel injection for my car too.  If I don't go with an 8-stack set up, which I really want but not sure if there will be funds left in the budget when it is time for the engine, I will be using the FiTech set up.

lowercasesteve wrote:

I just ordered mine.  The Rebate works now if you buy from Jegs.  It is supposed to come out on their web site this week.

Unfortunately, order lead time is 4 weeks.  Business must be good.

   Please keep us posted on what you think of the unit!   What unit did you end up buying?  What size engine do you have?
 

Last edited by Steve69 (3/03/2016 5:53 AM)

lowercasesteve wrote:

In case anyone is interested.... Some of these fuel injection systems prefer a single plane manifold.  Fltech tech support told me that a two plane manifold like my Performer works just fine.

For what it's worth, the EFI systems that have their injectors set into the manifold itself above the intake valves *do* need to be single-plane, or they end up doing weird things.   The throttle-body injection setups like FItech uses can work on any intake.

The advantage of rail-type EFI setups means that very little of the fuel can fall out of suspension on its way into the combustion chamber, except for a few drops that manage to hit the back of the valve and roll together before they get used.  It only has to suck air through the turns of the intake manifold, not fuel.  Depending on what system you run, some of the computers can actually change the fuel amount for each individual cylinder, as needed - but most don't.  That's why there's a problem.  Dual-plane setups tend to deliver more air to some cylinders than others, and since each injector is giving the same amount of gas, some cylinders will be rich while others are lean.  Bad.  There's a lot going on in a dual-plane, and those dynamics change depending on load, and RPM.  That's one reason why dual-planes tend to give a broader (and usually lower) RPM range for power.  Each cylinder is 'happy' during different RPMs and situations, so you've got a broader powerband.
Single-plane manifolds tend to have each runner 'tuned' a lot closer to each other, so they can make a higher peak power.  All of the cylinders are 'happy' about how much air and gas they get, all at about the same time.  The rail-type injection systems usually need a single-plane manifold to make sure each cylinder is getting a very 'equal' amount of air, to mix with the nearly-identical squirts of gas they're going to get.

The carburetor-style throttle body setups mix the gas and air in the right ratio as it's coming into the manifold, so however much gets to each cylinder, there's not as much of a problem.  If it starts out being mixed at the right ratio of gas to air, then it's going to be the same when it goes boom, even if some cylinders get a bit more 'bang' than others.  Sometimes there are problems with the mix separating though, just like with a carb.  (gasoline liquid doesn't burn - only vapor.  Big fat droplets just get blown out the tailpipe.)  With a hot intake manifold, the throttle body setup can actually cool the air coming into the cylinders, as it vaporizes the gas.  Cool air has higher density, and that means more oxygen going into each cylinder.  So on SOME cars, it may make a little more power than the big ugly 'twin rail down the manifold' type.

TL;DR - Rail type EFI needs single-plane manifolds.  Throttle body setups that squirt the gas in above the intake can use any type of intake a carb could go on.

I want one of the FItech (or even Atomic EFI rigs - sorry Steve!)  because I want to make my hood scoop functional, and I need a carb or throttle body to make that happen.  Besides.  It DOES look good!

 

Last edited by Technomancer (3/18/2016 12:33 AM)