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3/09/2016 10:50 PM  #51


Re: bore to 347?

How about this idea...should be low cost too. 
Have the block decked to zero then....have the crank shaft pins OFFSET ground to bring the pistons out of the bores by whatever the  offset grind yields?  The machinist can do the math to get proper piston-to-valve clearance. The pistons would be above flush so the heads would NOT need to be milled as much.
If dished pistons were used then most of the combustion would happen in the  dish of the piston which is suppose to be way better.
Like that idea DC?!!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/10/2016 6:55 AM  #52


Re: bore to 347?

Ideally you are right.  The trend in modern engines is to more of a Diesel configuration.  In a Diesel there is no combustion chamber.  The cylinder head is flat.  The pistons have a combustion cup, which is much smaller than a dished gasoline engine piston because they are shooting for compression in the 20:1 range.

If you look at a modular V8 they all run dished pistons and have a very small chamber in the head.  Several Engine Masters Challenge competitors have built engines like this as well, all of which scored well and posted very good BSFC numbers (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, a good measure of an engine's efficiency).  In a gas engine you are going to need a chamber in the head because I don't think there's enough room to physically fit a deep enough dish in the piston to go to a flat head with no chamber without making a lot of custom parts. 

So, were I building a max effort engine I would certainly go with the smallest chamber I could get (probably like 48-52cc's uncut).  Then deck the block to achieve the desired quench distance (probably right at 0.038").  Then have a piston made with a dish that would allow me to achieve my desired compression ratio (probably 11:1-11.5:1, maybe more depending on what fuel I was going to run).  I might even cut the heads to get a smaller chamber and allow a bigger dish in the piston.  That's about as much as I could reasonably do without welding up a set of heads, running longer valves, having pistons made with a different pin to crown height, having custom made rods, etc.

I think though, for devovino's application I'd just zero deck it, use a gasket with a compressed thickness in the 0.040-0.035" range, and set compression ratio with the chamber size in the head.  Offset grinding the crank is an interesting idea, but the crank already needs to be cut 0.010" on the rods, meaning that to offset grind it you'd need to either go to some kind of thick bearing, or reduce the big end diameter of the rods & run an oddball bearing, or weld up the crank to make it possible.  Typically in a stock engine that hasn't been decked the pistons are going to be 0.020"-0.040" down in the hole, so you're talking about moving the crank throw over that much, and then the grinding to get the journals clean on top of that.  Pretty expensive stuff at this level of play. 

 

3/10/2016 8:32 PM  #53


Re: bore to 347?

The more times you have to mock up the engine and do operations that are possibly not familiar to the machinist adds significantly to the labor cost. Like TKO said if you were interested in doing something max effort where the budget is less of a concern. Those would be some avenues to look at going down, but not really necessary in this case.

 

5/11/2016 5:46 PM  #54


Re: bore to 347?

To revive this old thread, getting this motor together after we ended up boring .030 over, getting some hyper pistons, opted for a mild comp cam with AFR heads and assembly will start next week. Asked what color I wanted the block painted and it stumped me... do I go traditional Ford Blue? Black? Silver? Seemingly simple question but muddied the waters for me and now cant decide, any input- Ford Blue is fairly traditional, but this car is after ending up non-traditional...


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5/11/2016 6:17 PM  #55


Re: bore to 347?

In a black engine bay(if that's what yours is) I like black.

 

5/11/2016 7:15 PM  #56


Re: bore to 347?

Raymond_B wrote:

In a black engine bay(if that's what yours is) I like black.

Very Nice!!! Yes the engine bay is black, and I was kinda leaning towards black truthfully, nice visual thanks!
 


All men die, but not all men truly ever live.
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5/11/2016 7:38 PM  #57


Re: bore to 347?

Mine's gonna be black too.

 

5/11/2016 9:21 PM  #58


Re: bore to 347?

I like old FoMoCo blue butt........my eyes are too so I'm a little parcel!!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

5/12/2016 5:18 AM  #59


Re: bore to 347?

Bullet Bob wrote:

Sounds like a well reasoned, realistic approach.  Whichever engine config you decide on, when you get to the T5, I really recommend the T5Z.  A standard T5 can be built with the Z gearset, I think.  The Z is about as perfect for the fun factor as you can get for not huge bux.  It has the close ratio gears and with the 3.55 gears will feel perfect...sort of like driving the old close ratio 4 spd but with a .63 OD.  Best of both worlds. 
I you don't have the trans or someone to build it you may want to contact Glenn at Rosehill Performance.  He's one of the gang here and knows his stuff...and he's a decent guy and soon to be 13 times consecutive Bash attendee. 
Good luck with your car, can't wait to see it at next year's Bash but not having it should NOT prevent you from attending this year. 
BB
 

    Glenn did a T5Z for me with a T5 Box.

 

Last edited by Steve69 (5/12/2016 5:19 AM)

 

5/12/2016 11:18 AM  #60


Re: bore to 347?

Depends on what you're going for.  Most engines starting in the '80s went black.  If you're trying to keep the '60s vibe alive I'd go Ford Blue.  If its going to have EFI, etc. then I think I'd go black.  When I swap in my 347 it'll be Ford Blue.  Its going to have a carb and in keeping with how I've done the interior I'm going to strive for a seamless blending of old and new to where its plausible looking at it that the car came that way. 

 

5/12/2016 1:11 PM  #61


Re: bore to 347?

I did my engine bay satin black and the 331 block Ford Corporate blue.  :-(
 I wish I would have done the engine and  bay body colour. :-)
 Black and blue does not do justice to all of my custom billet accessories. 


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

5/12/2016 2:43 PM  #62


Re: bore to 347?

Rudi wrote:

I did my engine bay satin black and the 331 block Ford Corporate blue.  :-(
 I wish I would have done the engine and  bay body colour. :-)
 Black and blue does not do justice to all of my custom billet accessories. 

That was my thinking, with a black on black "theme"  items like the intake, throttle body, and similar really stand out.
 

 

5/25/2016 6:01 PM  #63


Re: bore to 347?

Raymond_B wrote:

Rudi wrote:

I did my engine bay satin black and the 331 block Ford Corporate blue.  :-(
 I wish I would have done the engine and  bay body colour. :-)
 Black and blue does not do justice to all of my custom billet accessories. 

That was my thinking, with a black on black "theme"  items like the intake, throttle body, and similar really stand out.
 

Speaking of accessories, I am now making a list of components I will need for the motor being built. I do know I need a new pan, sump, and timing chain cover to move the dipstick, will the timing chain cover come pre-drilled for the dipstick?  Kinda getting a little overwhelmed with all the accessories I will need for the new motor so I am piece mealing it out. Anybody have a list of things to check off?

Do I go with reverse or standard water pump? V or Serpentine? I would like to keep the power steering that the car once had, and would like to add A/C if that is a possibility.

As of right now and keeping things simple, I will be going Carb instead of EFI.
 


All men die, but not all men truly ever live.
     Thread Starter
 

5/25/2016 9:20 PM  #64


Re: bore to 347?

Since you asked............I would go serpentine drive(so reverse WP) To keep the engine bay really clean I would TRY to make custom mounts to keep the Power steering...AC...Alt...as low as possible  to draw more attention to the intake/carb OR FI unit sitting on top.
Its only pictures of dead presidents!
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

5/26/2016 4:44 AM  #65


Re: bore to 347?

If you go reverse rotation pump for serpentine belt be mindful that the water pump outlet may be opposite of what you currently have. That means you would have to change your radiator also or come up with a lower radiator hose that looks like an octopus tentacle.

 

5/26/2016 5:17 AM  #66


Re: bore to 347?

If you can find a good radiator shop they can modify your existing radiator (move the inlet/outlet) so long as your radiator is brass/copper.

And its pictures of dead presidents and Founding Fathers.  Lest we forget the guy on the hundie was never president; he was an old man by the time there was a president, but he had served as Ambassador to France and was America's preeminent inventor.  The guy on the ten was responsible for a large part of the Federalist Papers and Secretary of the Treasury under Washington.  Sorry, I'm a history nerd at heart...

 

5/29/2016 11:03 AM  #67


Re: bore to 347?

MachTJ wrote:

If you go reverse rotation pump for serpentine belt be mindful that the water pump outlet may be opposite of what you currently have. That means you would have to change your radiator also or come up with a lower radiator hose that looks like an octopus tentacle.

 Copy that, well really the only radiator I have for this car was the original it it "appeared" to be in pretty bad shape, so I will now add that one to the list as well, thanks for the reminder, I need to start making a punch list..... also, thanks for the brief history lesson.

  6Sally6 that sounds good in theory, but you're talking to a guy whom had never even flared brake lines before this Mustang, and suggesting I fab up my own brackets, might be a tough sell.

I did take a look at my old motor, and the additional $300 289/C4 I picked up before I decided to go with a roller motor and they seem to have most of the bracketry I might need?  Not sure if they will work with reverse rotation however?


All men die, but not all men truly ever live.
     Thread Starter
 

6/20/2016 1:34 PM  #68


Re: bore to 347?

 I know yall are all busy getting ready for the Infamous Bash so I might not see a bunch of feedback but Doubling back on this topic as my motor is just about complete with assembly of the rotating components. As I said before my 92 5.0 block bored .030 over, prepped/painted and rotating assembly began over the weekend with new sealed power pistons/rings rod bolts, new cam bearings. Also will be using a (mild) comp cam and going with AFR 165 heads, waiting on some roller rockers, guide plates, and ARP head bolts to arrive to finish this stage.

So my question being I am going to go with a serpentine belt config. and wanted to make sure I get the right timing chain cover, water pump for this thing, and also need to get a new front oil pump and pan, what would peoples recommendation be for getting these parts.

Was originally a power steering car so will go back to that, and would like to add A/C so will need some bracketry, I found this on LMR as for the brackets:  
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-10313-K/mustang-engine-accessory-bracket-kit-hardware-7993 which should include most of the brackets needed correct?

Plus I need to think about intake manifold for a unknown carburetor? I have also thought about a throttle body injection system, anybody have any experience with that one?

Once again, thanks in advance, sorry for the barrage of questions.


All men die, but not all men truly ever live.
     Thread Starter
 

6/21/2016 4:23 AM  #69


Re: bore to 347?

Plenty of experience with TBI systems.  They work, but if you're going to spend the money for EFI I'd much rather have a sequential port system.  Especially on a Ford, where such a system was a factory option and can be sourced relatively cheaply.  The EECIV system used on the Fox body cars was IMO the best factory EFI system ever devised.

 

6/21/2016 5:43 AM  #70


Re: bore to 347?

i recently built a 92 roller. I'm using the 92 mustang serp set up. I got the front sump oil pan from summit.sealed power oil pump from rockauto. Don't forget you'll need a front sump pickup....order one listed for an early sbf. New oil pump drive shaft too.
Contact LMR regarding the timing chain cover. They can set you up with the correct one for your configuration.

 

6/21/2016 9:54 AM  #71


Re: bore to 347?



TWM 8-Stack injection (during install)
Killer looks--easy-to-tune computer 

Last edited by Prof (6/21/2016 9:55 AM)

 

6/21/2016 10:21 AM  #72


Re: bore to 347?

Granted that system is TBI, but there's also 8 injectors, one per cylinder.  Its really more like port EFI with long runners.  Is the injector above or below the throttle butterfly? 

 

6/21/2016 6:57 PM  #73


Re: bore to 347?

Melling oil pumps work good, on a fresh rebuild go with a standard volume pump. There is no need to go high volume. Also as was mentioned go with a good aftermarket oil pump driveshaft. I've seen more than one stocker twist like a pretzel and lose oil pressure.

 

6/22/2016 9:50 AM  #74


Re: bore to 347?

Yes, definitely a standard volume pump.  The high volume ones are horsepower wasters, and you end up sucking the pan dry to pump to top end full of oil.  Frankly I've never understood high volume pumps.  They seem to be a case of the bigger is better syndrome.  There are engines with oil system concerns like AMC, Pontiac, etc. which may benefit from work to the oil system, but SBFs have a good oiling system that works fine without a lot of messing around.  The weak link is the driveshaft, so spend a little to get an ARP, etc.  Otherwise run it as its built and you'll be fine. 

 

6/22/2016 11:02 AM  #75


Re: bore to 347?

Perfect, thanks for the feedback.   I will look at summit for a front oil pan, front pump, and new driveway.  Called and talked to LMR and they were a little unsure about the appropriate timing chain cover and pump, they suggested an external pump?

I had originally wanted to do the EFI system,  but then kinda talked myself out of it due to how involved it seemed and thought carburetor was just easier? I guess now is the time tho decide because I had thought about pulling my writing harness and sending it to the place in Fl that will re-work, check continuity,  and rebuilt it. But then realized I'd adding A/C, and possibly doing TBI or EFI,a new wiring harness might be indicated?


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     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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