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3/29/2016 9:12 AM  #1


Any electronic aces here?

I am looking for a circuit that will receive a VSS signal from an AOD transmission and convert it to 0 to 100 K ohm out put. An audio taper of the resistance is preferred. There must be an IC that will do that but I can't seem to find one.
 Any takers?


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/29/2016 12:02 PM  #2


Re: Any electronic aces here?

A VSS typically puts out a signal rated in pulses per mile.  I'm not sure what that rate is for an AOD VSS.  I do know that the Dakota Digital SGI-5 can manipulate a VSS signal and change the output by multiplying or dividing the pulses per mile.  If that's your goal, here's a link:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=287/mode=prod/prd126.htm

If not, I need to know more about what you're trying to accomplish.  One of my best friends has a Masters in electrical engineering and I can ask him, as he's always tinkering with stuff like this. 

 

3/29/2016 12:41 PM  #3


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Thanks for the reply.
 The Epas that I have built uses a one watt, 0 to 100 k audio taper potentiometer to regulate the amount of assist dialed in. It will go from no assist to 100% throughout the range. 
 Normally the "pot" is installed where it can be accessed from the driver seat and manually adjusted as required from parking or freeway travel
 I would like to put together a small interface that takes the pulse from the VSS (8000 PPM, square wave) and gives me a speed regulated resistance equal to the 100k pot.  that would vary according the road speed, say from 100% when parking and 10-20% at freeway speeds.
 It has been a long time since I tinkered with Intergrated circuits and have lost most of the manuals and IC specs that I used to have.
 Any light  your friend can shed on this idea would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Last edited by Rudi (3/29/2016 12:45 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

3/29/2016 1:17 PM  #4


Re: Any electronic aces here?

So you want to be able to adjust steering effort in an electric assist steering system using the VSS to determine road speed.  Instead of adjusting it manually with a pot you'd like an IC to do it automatically.  A circuit providing varying resistance based on input pulse frequency.  How many wires go to the VSS?  Two?

Last edited by TKOPerformance (3/29/2016 1:28 PM)

 

3/29/2016 1:41 PM  #5


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Rudi - I have absolutely no electronic smarts, but that one of the coolest ideas I have heard of for classics.  Gotta be a way.  I am sure that others will think of safety too, but on my 97 suburban, the variable p/s boost function malfunctioned, and defaulted to full boost when I was at highway speed.  Scariest day of my life, from a transportation perspective.  Make sure whoever builds it, sets the default to zero boost if the vss or chip fails.

 

3/29/2016 2:04 PM  #6


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Rudi wrote:

I am looking for a circuit that will receive a VSS signal from an AOD transmission and convert it to 0 to 100 K ohm out put. An audio taper of the resistance is preferred. There must be an IC that will do that but I can't seem to find one.
 Any takers?

That output needs to be 12v or 5v through the 100 ohm resistor right? Sort of like a throttle position sensor? You have a 5v reference, a sensor ground, and then the output which varies as the TPS moves (the TPS is the resistor).

I am talking about the output side of the circuit, so this is the signal that goes *to* the EPAS.
 

Last edited by Raymond_B (3/29/2016 2:20 PM)

 

3/29/2016 2:35 PM  #7


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Adding to this if you have a two wire VSS then it's going to output an AC wave pattern. So you'd need to convert that to whatever linear voltage output to the EPAS. And that's assuming the EPAS is expecting some sort of linear voltage which it sounds like it is.

So, having said all that I wonder if there's a simple aftermarket speedometer adapter you could use. Or maybe something like Dallas Mustang's SpeedCal.

 

3/29/2016 4:10 PM  #8


Re: Any electronic aces here?

I made a circuit that connects the base of a PNP transistor to the input from the VSS. It puts out a solid square wave based on the supply voltage and the frequency of the VSS. Connect the square wave output of the transistor to a frequency to voltage converter (LM331). You can then take that voltage and feed the input to a comparator  IC (LM393). The LM393 has 2 outputs that can be turned on and off at any preset voltage levels. If needed they can be use to turn on and off relays. Now put 3 resisters in parallel. ( For an example lets say 10K, 5K and 1K) they can be connected or disconnected via a relay. Lets say the all three resister are in parallel to start, total resistance < 1K. As speed of car increases, freq of vss increases, voltage increases, this turns off one of the comparator circuits in the (LM393) drops off the 1K resistor - total resistance now < 5K. As speed increases drop off the 5K resister to farther decrease assist. Kinda hard to splain something like this on here.


If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
 

3/29/2016 4:30 PM  #9


Re: Any electronic aces here?

TKOPerformance wrote:

So you want to be able to adjust steering effort in an electric assist steering system using the VSS to determine road speed.  Instead of adjusting it manually with a pot you'd like an IC to do it automatically.  A circuit providing varying resistance based on input pulse frequency.  How many wires go to the VSS?  Two?

Yes , two wire VSS.
 The assist control (pot) goes into an after market control box that sends a signal to the power steering control module. The manual pot has two wires going intocontrol box.

Last edited by Rudi (3/29/2016 4:39 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

3/29/2016 4:43 PM  #10


Re: Any electronic aces here?

wsinsle wrote:

I made a circuit that connects the base of a PNP transistor to the input from the VSS. It puts out a solid square wave based on the supply voltage and the frequency of the VSS. Connect the square wave output of the transistor to a frequency to voltage converter (LM331). You can then take that voltage and feed the input to a comparator  IC (LM393). The LM393 has 2 outputs that can be turned on and off at any preset voltage levels. If needed they can be use to turn on and off relays. Now put 3 resisters in parallel. ( For an example lets say 10K, 5K and 1K) they can be connected or disconnected via a relay. Lets say the all three resister are in parallel to start, total resistance < 1K. As speed of car increases, freq of vss increases, voltage increases, this turns off one of the comparator circuits in the (LM393) drops off the 1K resistor - total resistance now < 5K. As speed increases drop off the 5K resister to farther decrease assist. Kinda hard to splain something like this on here.

 That theory might work but I would rather not use relays which would put out a  stepped increase in the resistance instead of a constantly tapered increase.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

3/29/2016 5:26 PM  #11


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Did a google on voltage to resistance conversion and got this, you can use the freq to voltage conversion then go to this. Not sure how it works, never messed with it.

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3284


 


If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
 

3/29/2016 5:46 PM  #12


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Good info on the signal characterization.

http://accutach.com/Documents/VSSCharacterization.pdf

 

3/29/2016 5:54 PM  #13


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Rudi wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

So you want to be able to adjust steering effort in an electric assist steering system using the VSS to determine road speed.  Instead of adjusting it manually with a pot you'd like an IC to do it automatically.  A circuit providing varying resistance based on input pulse frequency.  How many wires go to the VSS?  Two?

Yes , two wire VSS.
 The assist control (pot) goes into an after market control box that sends a signal to the power steering control module. The manual pot has two wires going intocontrol box.

So, a two wire VSS is a magnetic AC pulse generator, which produces a sine wave format.  That's important because some VSS are actually hall effect (three wire) which would be a totally different direction. 

So what's needed is a varistor circuit that converts a magnetic AC pulse sine wave to a varied resistance.

What's the voltage going through the circuit?  I'm assuming the manual pot is the varied resistance so the control box is seeing a given voltage at varying amperage. 

 

3/29/2016 7:03 PM  #14


Re: Any electronic aces here?

TKOPerformance wrote:

Rudi wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

So you want to be able to adjust steering effort in an electric assist steering system using the VSS to determine road speed.  Instead of adjusting it manually with a pot you'd like an IC to do it automatically.  A circuit providing varying resistance based on input pulse frequency.  How many wires go to the VSS?  Two?

Yes , two wire VSS.
 The assist control (pot) goes into an after market control box that sends a signal to the power steering control module. The manual pot has two wires going intocontrol box.

So, a two wire VSS is a magnetic AC pulse generator, which produces a sine wave format.  That's important because some VSS are actually hall effect (three wire) which would be a totally different direction. 

So what's needed is a varistor circuit that converts a magnetic AC pulse sine wave to a varied resistance.

What's the voltage going through the circuit?  I'm assuming the manual pot is the varied resistance so the control box is seeing a given voltage at varying amperage. 

 I will have to see if I can take an actual measurement to make that determination


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

3/30/2016 5:24 AM  #15


Re: Any electronic aces here?

A potentiometer is just a voltage divider.  Were it me I'd first try feeding the VSS output to a rectifier circuit with a capacitor on the output that converts the pulses to a DC voltage.  This will average the VSS output so you should have higher voltages as speed increases (greater pulse density = higher average voltage).  You will probably end up feeding that output to a simple analog amplifier to get the voltage levels where you want them but it should not be too impossible to make it work.


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

3/30/2016 8:12 AM  #16


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Rudi I'm very green when it comes to electronics but I've been thinking about a crank fired ignition which lead me to the Megasquirt  line of EMS processors.

The Microsquirt I/O expansion in particular seems like it would do what you need plus control fans, fuel pump,etc., as all the megasquirt ECU'S inputs/ outputs can be custom tailored for whatever purpose desired-

http://www.msextra.com/product-range/expansion/microsquirt-io-box/

Anyway besides electronic ignition an EPAS is another direction I'm going with and these will link with it and the output can be tuned for the desired level of assist in whatever increments you set, so not only variable assist but ultimate control of how much and when.

Don't mean to waste your time but thought this might be worth a look for you, especially if you have other electronic control needs like PWM speed controlled fans.

 

4/06/2016 6:20 PM  #17


Re: Any electronic aces here?

This isn't going to be solved by a simple circuit, but it can easily be solved with a small processor. Any pic or arduino could handle this easily.

You would use a frequency counter function in the processor to read the VSS signal (after stepping it down to 5v levels) and then either use a digital potentiometer ( if you need variable resistance) or use pwm to create a variable voltage. Totally doable, but if the steering controls are looking for 0-12V you will need to pass the pwm through a 12 transistor to step up the voltage. Still doable even for a beginner.
I agree that this is the only way to go.
BobN

 

4/07/2016 6:47 AM  #18


Re: Any electronic aces here?

Thanks Bob. That seems to be what I am looking for. Right now I am trying to determine the voltages the control is.
 Any more help on this would be much appreciated.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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