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Finished a friend's engine rebuild and went to start but could not get fire to plugs. After checking voltages and continuity in all the normal places, I checked the coil to distributor wire for continuity and found the wire dead. It is a standard 7mm carbon impregnated fiber element, not my favorite, but set is new and have never had a coil wire fail. Prowled around and found another coil wire, carbon filled also, and tried it. No luck with that one, either. Have never encountered one shorted out much less two. Is there something I am doing wrong. Coil configured ignition wire to positive, distributor wire to negative. Any suggestions? I'm stumped and running out of adult beverages. Help!
Been better
Al
Last edited by Al Newman (4/09/2016 7:10 PM)
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Got another coil AND war to try?! Two bad wires is "almost" impossible, huh?!
6s6
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Sal,
Good to hear from you. Forgot to mention that I have tried three coils, actually. Funny thing is, over the years I have tried to blame the coil on several issues I have confronted, and not once was the coil faulty. Unless someone can suggest otherwise, tomorrow I am going to locate a set of DIY wires with copper cores and make a coil wire. If that one fritzes, I will take your advice (?) and follow that failure with a few brewskies. If everything works, however, I will also follow with a few brewskies. See any pattern there?
Better,
Al
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I had a strange issue trying to start a 64 Lincoln that had been sitting for 30+ years. Once we had done all the fluids etc we tried to start it. It cranked fine but it had no spark. I fooled around for several days changing everything I could think of and a friend suggested getting another battery and jumping it. It fired right up. I called to let my friend know he was correct and he told me sometimes the starter takes so much power that nothing is left to fire the plugs. I don't know for sure that this is true but it worked it this case.
I hope you are able to find the problem.
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Points ignition or electronic? Also are you sure you are making contact with the metal clips when testing the coil wire? There are 3 reasons why a coil wire wouldn't have continuity. 1 The terminals are not crimped over the center of the wire, having no connection between the clip and wire. 2 there is an internal break of the wire somewhere in the center, caused by pinching the wire at an extreme angle or just made badly. 3 Not getting good contact from your multimeter to the clips inside the wire.
Last edited by MachTJ (4/10/2016 7:59 AM)
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Al - the carbon wires are "resistive" wires and the ohms reading across them will be a few thousand ohms, not zero ohms.
I recommend the following (if you haven't already tried it). Remove a spark plug wire from the plug and crank the engine while holding the wire close to the plug, you should hear the arc jumping across the gap. Don't touch the body while doing this step as you may receive a shock.
To verify that +12 volts is getting to the coil, I like to jump from the hot lead on the starter solenoid directly to the coil and crank it again using the above method. This will isolate a problem involving the primary wiring ... ignition switch, broken wiring, bulkhead connector, etc. If still no spark, the problem is in the distributor itself ... points, condenser, wiring.
Oh, and the solution for running out of adult beverages is to go the store and purchase more!
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Bob,
Thanks for the tips. Before I head to the store, here is how I tested the coil wire. I attached my inductive timing light to the coil wire and checked for any light flash while cranking the motor. In my thinking, no timing light flash, no voltage passing through the wire.
Best,
Al
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That only works if you are sure your coil is actually being triggered to send a spark and that your coil is actually working.
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Mach,
Good point. I have used three coils at this point with identical results. After testing the coil wires with the timing light, I checked continuity and the wires show none. The coils are oem and don't produce any ultra high voltage. The ignition side of the coil is receiving 12+ volts. Calculated resistance is around 4 ohms. Just cannot find anything extraordinary that would explain coil wire failure. At this juncture, I am thinking "Murphy" is having a good time developing some new material for another book. He lives in my shop, you know.
Best,
Al
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Does the engine have a good ground. You stated it was recently rebuilt. Also is the rotor installed in the distributor? Also did you check voltage to coil with engine cranking.
Last edited by MachTJ (4/10/2016 4:17 PM)
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Al Newman wrote:
Bob,
Thanks for the tips. Before I head to the store, here is how I tested the coil wire. I attached my inductive timing light to the coil wire and checked for any light flash while cranking the motor. In my thinking, no timing light flash, no voltage passing through the wire.
Best,
Al
Timing light method works just as well. As Mach TJ suggests, make sure your ground is good (although if the starter engages and cranks the engine, the ground it should be good), and the rotor is installed and turns when cranking the engine. Make sure the wire going into the distributor isn't grounded where it enters the housing, or broken.
Are you using points or electronic ignition? If electronic, what brand?
Last edited by BobE (4/10/2016 5:41 PM)
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Bob,
The distributor has Ignitor system installed. It checked out okay, but I replaced it with a new Ignitor to be on the safe side. The Ignitor is properly grounded and is wired to the ignition wire directly off the ignition switch prior to the fuseable link resistor wire, thus providing a full 12+ volts to the Ignitor.
The motor itself is properly grounded to the firewall via a ground strap to the rear of the motor's head.
I found some wire core plug wire and will use it to make up a coil wire to test this morning. Will let you know the results.
Optimistic,
Al
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ignitor 1, 2 or 3? Don't they use specific coils like Flamethrower I, 2, and 3 for each different ignitor type?
I think you are missing something from the "I" terminal on the starter relay to the Coil positive.
the primary ignition circuit has 2 paths from the Ignition switch to the coil. One path for "cranking", and a 2nd path when the key is in the "run" position. The "cranking" path is so that it gets a full 12 volts during cranking to make it easier to kick over. The "run" path inserts the resistance wire lowering it from 12 volts to a lower voltage so that the original points didn't get burned out and pitted. If you are not using points, then I would think the resistance wire needs to be eliminated, but this only comes into play when the car is running anyway. Which leads me back to the "cranking" path. I am not sure that your ignition switch is providing you with a "cranking" path to the coil. The "cranking" path comes off the "I" terminal on the starter relay to the coil.
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Thanks, Mark. I will check that; however, I did attach the red ignitor wire to the ignition wire just before it attached to the resister wire. Pertronix offers somewhat hotter coils, but they will tell you the use of their coils is not necessary. This engine build and entire setup is stock, so I am only using the basic ignitor, not the II (multi spark) or III (multi spark with rev limiter).
Best
Al
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Al - I'm not familiar w/the Pertronix system, but you can try the following to bypass the distributor. Put your timing light on the high voltage wire from the coil to distributor, disconnect the coil terminal wiring, put a +12v from the battery to the + terminal, and momentarily ground the negative side of the coil. When you lift the negative lead (un-grounding it) you should get the high voltage from the coil to the distributor. This process is basically what the points perform. It this works, the problem is in the distributor.
Also, regarding the coil, primary resistance should be about 1 ohm, secondary should be about 5 to 10,000 ohms. If your getting somewhere close to these values the coil is good. Although there is a chance that there could be an internal problem while the coil is in active service, I would think this would be very rare.
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Verify 12 volts on positive side of coil during cranking. There has to be something missing,or being overlooked. Does the electronic ignition use a plastic piece that acts as a reluctor that slips over the distributor where the points ride and is the rotor on the distributor? 3 coils and 2+ coil wires being bad is almost impossible. Something simple is being missed.
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I made a coil to distribiutor wire using real wire core wire and everything is okay. Maybe just chalk this up to a one-off weird coil wire failure - twice. Never had a coil failure. Never had a coil wire failure. Never had any issues with an ignitor. Murphy wins again. Thanks for everyone's input. Time to pop a top.
Best,
Al
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Reading through this, two bad coil wires is the last thing I would have thought of. But you got it, that's all that counts.
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Hard to believe two bad coils ... If it not too much trouble, I'd like to ask you to check the resistance as I indicate in my last post and let us know the values.
BTW - just to be clear the secondary resistance should be somewhere between 5,000 & 10,000 ohms.
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