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Hello,
just purchased a 69 Mach 1 S Code Acapulco Blue Black interior. it has a 390 in it but seller told me they blew motor 20 years ago and now have a 390 in from that time but he does not remember anything about it. i am pulling motor our in a week or so and will want to figure our what it is and from what it came from.
any help in getting me started will be helpful. what i really want to know is did they just make a 390 for the mustang or are they generic? did ford stamp these motors with vin or serial numbers. i will want to at the least find a correct date coded 390 to rebuild and install back in the car. Date code on Mach is Feb 22 1969. when looking how close do i need to get to make it as correct as possible?
of course if some one has a 390 top to bottom in the correct date code area and wants to sell it i maybe interested. i live in the Philly area. been out of mustangs for a few years playing with Broncos but this one came up and i moved on it quickly and got it. so now make it look like a rose.
thanks Jerry in Philly
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the 390 was a generic engine used in a lot of ford products, the S code was for 4V or 335 HP
Most if not all factory installed engines got a partial vin stamped in the back of the head or block below head on drivers side. The date codes would be from nov. dec.of 68 and jan. of 69.
you can find the date code on your block, above the oil filter. year month day
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ok that is big help. knowing they are generic will help me find a dated coded engine easier. i think.
good input thanks. jerry
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one more thing. what are the casting numbers i should be looking for? block , heads, intake?
thanks again.
Jerry
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Welcome to the site Jerry. Mustangtek.com is another place to look for help with what casting numbers that should have been on the engine. The casting number in the heads may go across several different models Ford had, but you will need to 14 bolt GT heads if you are trying to get back to what Ford installed. On the exhaust side, the center bottom ports do not have bolt holes tapped. The outer top holes are lower than the center two. Happy parts hunting.
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coolclassiccars wrote:
Hello,
just purchased a 69 Mach 1 S Code Acapulco Blue Black interior. it has a 390 in it but seller told me they blew motor 20 years ago and now have a 390 in from that time but he does not remember anything about it. i am pulling motor our in a week or so and will want to figure our what it is and from what it came from.
any help in getting me started will be helpful. what i really want to know is did they just make a 390 for the mustang or are they generic? did ford stamp these motors with vin or serial numbers. i will want to at the least find a correct date coded 390 to rebuild and install back in the car. Date code on Mach is Feb 22 1969. when looking how close do i need to get to make it as correct as possible?
of course if some one has a 390 top to bottom in the correct date code area and wants to sell it i maybe interested. i live in the Philly area. been out of mustangs for a few years playing with Broncos but this one came up and i moved on it quickly and got it. so now make it look like a rose.
thanks Jerry in Philly
Your engine code for that car should start something like this C9ZE The Z is indicative of the Mustang and would be what you are looking for
Last edited by terry (4/13/2016 6:02 AM)
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If its just that you want the car original then I get that, but from a what you're going to spend vs. what you can sell the car for thing I think this exercise is going to cost way more than you're ever going to see back. If it was a 428 car it might be different, but the 390 cars are not as desirable, and nowadays the market on average is a baby boomer who doesn't care that much about originality; they want the FE big block and they want it to be fast.
I've several books on the FE, and if you can get me casting numbers off the block, heads, crank, and rods I can at least narrow down what the engine came from. The most likely source is a truck because they has the FE the longest and were the most plentiful in the bone yards. After that it would be a fullsize car.
Today if you just want to make some power with the FE it can get spendy, but they can really rip and still have street manners. I still have a 390 under one of my workbenches that I dream about building into a 500+HP 445 stroker, but the cost means that's at best a retirement project, and at worst a fantasy. But parts are available, and this is probably the best time for FEs since they were new. Today you can have an aluminum headed, roller cammed FE just like any other make, whereas in years past the FE was relegated to the category of "it was hell in its day, but its day has passed". If you're interested in performance buy Barry Rabotnick's book. He's probably THE leading authority on the FE.
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well the car is so correct except for the motor that i wanted to keep it as close to correct as possible but still have some meat on the bone. my mechanic is 32 years old and has a 85 fox body 5.0 and is cranking 600 hp out of it. we can make it pop a little but i am still a purist at heart. i do understand that today everyone wants restomods with all the fixins vs pure car. i am retired and doing this for fun and make a few bucks.
thanks everyone for your inputs. now have get the motor and trans out and go from there.
Jerry
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You never said if you had a manual or automatic trans., but when you remove it, look on the top mounting flange toward the front for vin # maybe they only changed the engine.
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the marti says automatic but the seller said the 4 speed has been in for over 20 years. he owned the Mach 1 for 22 years. it was garaged the whole time and last on the road in 02. my initial looks i could not find and rust except a few bubbles in doors but underside of doors looked great. they painted it purple 18 years ago so i am stripping and going back to Acapulco Blue. Looking forward to the adventure.
Jerry
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coolclassiccars wrote:
well the car is so correct except for the motor that i wanted to keep it as close to correct as possible but still have some meat on the bone. my mechanic is 32 years old and has a 85 fox body 5.0 and is cranking 600 hp out of it. we can make it pop a little but i am still a purist at heart. i do understand that today everyone wants restomods with all the fixins vs pure car. i am retired and doing this for fun and make a few bucks.
thanks everyone for your inputs. now have get the motor and trans out and go from there.
Jerry
If you're looking to make money on the deal just run with what you've got. There's no money to be made trying to get the "correct" engine in it. I'd drop a decent intake and carb onto it, go with a flat tappet hydraulic cam that's got a bit of rumble to the idle and pocket port the heads. Beyond that you get into spending a lot just to build the engine. Aftermarket heads are in the $2,000 range, headers expensive and complicated, and a roller valvetrain awesome but also costly. Set your goal at about 350-375HP. Its going to make a lot of low end torque, so it will feel faster than the HP number would seem to indicate. I'll also caution that you and your builder do your research. The FE is not a 5.0, and can't be built like one. There are several good books on the topic, and I would do a lot of reading before machining or buying anything.
On the trans I'd just keep what you have. Again, trying to change this isn't going to net you any more money because its "correct". The thing that would bring more money would be if it had a modern overdrive trans allowing highway cruising. But, the nature of that swap to an FE is costly because they were never bolted to such a trans, so you don't get the bolt in availability of the small block guys.
When you "restore" a car for profit the usual motives don't apply. It doesn't matter if its how you want it, just what will sell for the most money with the least amount of cost spent. That's tough because we're all car guys, and its hard to separate the emotion from it. When I was first restoring my car the market was as close to showroom stock as possible, and that's how I restored my car. That's not what I want anymore, and its not what most people want anymore. The problem with showroom stock is that the cars are no longer as versatile as they once were in that condition, and people have gotten used to driving newer cars with all the conveniences. When I was 15 I'd have looked at the guy putting a hot rod non-factory engine in his car as an idiot. Now I'm like rock on, how fast is it? Don't let the Barret Jackson and Mecum auctions of the world fool you. Those are frequented by a tiny subset of classic car buyers, and the level a car needs to be at to command those kinds of prices is absurd. The average guy, with the average car is nowhere near that, and the cost to get there is likely twice what the car would be worth. There's always going to be the GT500 selling for hundreds of thousands, but the more mundane offerings don't fetch anywhere near that. The market right now is still strong, but its also unpredictable.
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Well I pulled the 390 out this last Sunday and I have found out it is 1975 truck 390 and intake. I will want to find a better 390 then that. Something closer to the build date. I appreciate the advice I have gotten here but I am not going to be happy if I don't look for something closer to date and hopefully not a truck motor.
Is this a good site to advertise for a date coded motor rebuildable and near the Mid Atlantic states so I can pick it up.
Thanks Jerry
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That I can't say, but typically when you're into looking for that kind of stuff Hemmings Motor News was always the way to go. Learn what to look for and be ware of fakes. People become unscrupulous when money is involved.
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What was it that told you it was a truck 390? Block casting number, head casting number, piston, or crank? A mid 70's truck block is not bad from a performance perspective. A stock 390 truck piston and rod with the 428's 3.98 stroke crank made the 410 that Mercury used in 66 & 67. Gave about 9.5 -10 to 1 compression. It could all be hide inside and no one knows.
You can advertise a WTB here, at the Ford FE Forum on Network 54 and the FE Power forum. There are a bunch of hoarders out there with the parts stored away. I have run searches on EBay for specific casting numbers too.
The guy that painted my car paid about 4K for a rebuilt 390 that matched the build date for his S code 68. I thought it was high, but he was happy to get it.
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here is what i pulled off the motor: Block had D4TE Intake D5T or FE9425MB Date 6D14 heads are: C8AE-H. Tranny RUGD-2. Have not pulled motor down yet. Just seeing what I have and move forward.
thanks for your help.
Jerry
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See the David Kee site to help ID your transmission. It appears to be a wide-ratio unit but your tag may have a dash out of place -
There is nothing wrong with the truck motor. The car doesn't care what the date is. I would rather start with a known good block than search for a date correct block of unknown condition. The heads are a generic FE head that with some bigger valves, hardened seats, etc. will build some decent horsepower. They were not a CJ head and very common on 390's in many passenger cars including Mustangs. If you want to stay period correct they could be used but a set of Edelbrock heads may be about the same cost by they time you have them worked over and will run better out of the box.
The intake is probably the weak link until you get into the inside of the engine. There are a lot of good after-market intakes that will work better than any cast iron manifold. Blue Thunder builds some excellent intakes that look just like stock if that is your goal. I put an "S"-code 4 barrel intake (common on many Mustangs) on my truck which would be close to original but if I was building a motor for a driver Mustang I wouldn't touch it. These are easily found on Craig's List.
I did a craig's list search in the Denver area and found 4 390's that ranged from $800 for a 390 and C-6 to $4200 for a fresh rebuild. I don't know the date codes - they weren't listed. If you tell people you are looking for a specific date code, they will likely jack the price up. I would search 390's out (they aren't rare by any means) and then ask for the date information (casually) and it it fits your criteria then jump on it. I would also find an engine builder that knows FE's that can inspect the engine for you. A Chevy oriented machine shop cannot evaluate an FE properly and cannot build them correctly in most cases. The fits, machining, tolerances, and oil passage modifications are beyond their range of experience. Personally, I think period correct engine is a better use of money and resources than a date correct block. But if you have to have it..... If you have a good 390 block now, save some money and build what you have right. My local Ford engine guy, who is an FE wiz, has a bunch of 390's in storage and I'm sure he'd be happy to build one for you that is close to your date if you are willing to part with the bucks. And to be clear - I am an FE fan - no small block can match the unique sound of an FE.
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G Patrick,
thanks for your time and helping me sort through this. I am starting to get the idea that what I have may be as nice as I need. My builder has been at it for years and has done many 390 motors. He has done 4 289 motors for me and everyone ran and performed great. I have confidence in him or he and his brother. I got the motor running by spaying starter fluid and ran for 20 to 30 seconds 4 or 5 times. Long enough to see the oil pressure (gauge) went right up to the 3/4 mark on gauge. So pressure seems good. Carb is shot. I have the opportunity to buy a FE 3x2 set up and install it on what ever I build. I also know of 3-4 428 motors built and a 427 built that i can purchase. Each of those would be from 45 to 85 hundred to buy. I can build this one and add performance parts to enhance it and add the 3x2 set up. The trans was swapped out to the 4 speed years ago from FMX and motor the seller told me was blown years ago. So I knew of swaps when I bought the car. My decision is just how do I want to go. It is not that money is no object as it is but I want a SWEET ride that the next person will be proud to drive and show it. It is getting stripped and repainted (acapulco blue) as most of the body was repaired years ago as well and still looks good. I am willing to put it back to great shape and let the next person love it. I am 69 and retired so time I have and and I am willing to spend some money to get it back to its thoroughbred shape. Maybe others would not touch it but I am willing.
Thanks again for everyone who has taken the time to type me there thoughts. I do appreciate it as I am not a big block guy but want to do one before the lights go out. Hopefully a long time off but no guarantees.
Thanks Jerry
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Jerry, Sent you a PM
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