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  •  » front springs???

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    6/12/2013 12:03 PM  #1

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
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    front springs???

    Took my 65 to have front end aligned today.  The tech says he doesnt feel as thought the front of the car is unloading.  He showed me while it was on the alignment machine that when you push up on the frontend it wont settle back down unless he pulls it back down.  Even on the ball bearing plates they use.  The computer shows when he does this just exactly hiw much this changes the settings!  This is the problem I have been having since rebuilding the front suspension.  It does drive better and doesnt lift quite as bad as it had been doing but still isnt right.
    I believe these are the the origonal springs but not sure.  He feels as thought maybe the springs may need replaced??  He did say he was not an expert in classic car suspension and has only been doing alignment for  20 years.  
    Does this sound logical???  Do I put progressive rate springs in??  What weight do I use.  I do not want to change ride height!  as I just went thru all that!!

     

    6/12/2013 12:37 PM  #2

    MAW
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    From: Memphis, Indiana
    Registered: 4/11/2013
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    Re: front springs???

    I'm definitely no front end guy butt(TS) I wouldn't think old springs would hold the front end up, if anything it would go lower. Seems like something else could be binding or holding it up. JMHO  Good luck, Mike

    66 Vert.  4.6 DOHC, 4R70 Auto, Heidt's M2 frontend
     

    6/12/2013 1:27 PM  #3

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
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    Re: front springs???

    LCA bushings can cause that. Springs cannot keep it up there if they are worn out. They would sit too low if they were worn out!.

    I wonder if the UCA bushings are in a bind.  Did you install them so they would easily rotate on the shaft?  Sometimes if there are too many shims on one ind of the shaft, tightening the two big nuts will distort the shaft, making it try to align with the two different planes the shims are in.  Then, the bushings are in a big bind because the shaft is no longer straight.

    One thing you could try that would tell you if it was the LCA bushings...  Just loosen the bolts and see if it settles down then.  Remember to retighten before driving. 

    Also, and to a much lesser degree, having new pressurized shocks on the car aid the springs in lifting the car.  I have never measured how much, if any, that raises the car, but it might be contributing to the issue.

    Or it might be that you still have the winter air in your tires.  Flatten them and install summer air to see if it helps.  That will lower it, guaranteed, for a little while at least.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    6/12/2013 2:38 PM  #4

    darren
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    From: Wentzville Mo.
    Registered: 4/05/2013
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    Re: front springs???

    Can't see worn out springs causing this. Something is in a bind.
    To add to the topic, my car seems to drive best with the Indian Summer air in the tires. Best of both worlds.

     

    6/12/2013 3:20 PM  #5

    jerseyjoe
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    Re: front springs???

     Terry,had a similar problem...lube the swaybar bushings ??....jj

    "Never put a question mark where God put a period "  Richard Petty
     

    6/12/2013 3:22 PM  #6

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
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    Re: front springs???

    i kinda thought that aboit the springs as well but what do i know?  the term he used was he didnt think the suspension was unloading???
    As far as the UCA bushings, they were loose enough that I had to hold the shaft straight to put the bolts thru the shock tower, if I let go the shaft would swing down. I figure that was plenty loose?? 
    the problem with loosening the LCA bolt and seeing if it settles is the front end settles just as soon as I hit the brakes so its not like it stays up.  I wonder if I'm tightening them up too tight?? I went by the factory specs.  I remember when I put the LCAs on they felt kinda snug and it took some pushing to swing them up and down before I attached the lower ball joint to the spindle but I just thought it was cause they were new?
    As far as the shocks, they have been on there for a couple years, they are kyb gr-2s

    As far as the Summer air and winter air, well I will just leave that alone. 

       •Thread Starter
     

    6/12/2013 3:25 PM  #7

    terry
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    Re: front springs???

    jerseyjoe wrote:

     Terry,had a similar problem...lube the swaybar bushings ??....jj

    Interesting!!!  Are you referring to the ones where the swaybar attaches to the frame????

     

       •Thread Starter
     

    6/12/2013 4:45 PM  #8

    darren
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    From: Wentzville Mo.
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    Re: front springs???

    Suspension bolts should really be final tightened at ride height. When you say you had a hard time pivoting them bfore bolting up the lower ball joint points to the bind being at the lower inner pivot.
    Like MS says, loosen them and see if the problem goes away when when you push the frontend up like the alignment tech did.
    If the arms are tigtened at ride height, when you push up, any bind induced would return the frontend to where it was, not hold it up.
    Edit: Indian Summer air must be added to the tires after a vacuum is pullled on them overnight. Don't just deflate them.....do the job right.

    Last edited by darren (6/12/2013 4:46 PM)

     

    6/12/2013 4:46 PM  #9

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
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    Re: front springs???

    How bout this..........Loosen one thing at a time until the car settles back down like it should.  Springs couldn't bethe problem because they are already weakened and naturally let it settle.
    Back off on the sway bar brackets the rubber bushings and bar go through....give the car a push up and down....then go to the lower arms and do the same thing. When you find something that lets the car settle down........then you will know WHERE the problem is!
    6sally6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/12/2013 4:48 PM  #10

    Hornman
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    Re: front springs???

    terry wrote:

    jerseyjoe wrote:

     Terry,had a similar problem...lube the swaybar bushings ??....jj

    Interesting!!!  Are you referring to the ones where the swaybar attaches to the frame????

     

    When I installed my new sway bar (17 years ago) I was told to wrap the sway bar with a couple of wraps of teflon pipe tape, but I think that was mostly to stop the urethane bushings from sqeeking. With the end mountings loose I can pivot the sway bar with two fingers.

     

    6/12/2013 4:57 PM  #11

    jerseyjoe
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    Re: front springs???

    terry wrote:

    jerseyjoe wrote:

     Terry,had a similar problem...lube the swaybar bushings ??....jj

    Interesting!!!  Are you referring to the ones where the swaybar attaches to the frame????

     

     
    Terry the sway bar bushings could be the wrong size...too tight and yes the ones that mount on the frame...loosen them and see if things change....jj

    "Never put a question mark where God put a period "  Richard Petty
     

    6/12/2013 5:30 PM  #12

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
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    Re: front springs???

    the only prob I have thinking about the sway bushings is they were not changed when I changed everything else??  maybe thats part if the problem???  I'm really stumped on this.  I will try everything you all suggested cept the winter air, pullin a vacuum chain yankin!!!
    Darren your thinking of Air conditioning with that vacuum pullin!!

       •Thread Starter
     

    6/12/2013 5:50 PM  #13

    darren
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    From: Wentzville Mo.
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    Re: front springs???

    Don't be stumped. Its simply something in a bind. Loosen until you find it. Easy peasy. Just don't drive around with stuff loosened up....

     

    6/12/2013 5:58 PM  #14

    terry
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    Re: front springs???

    only thing loose when I drive is my brain!!  oh and occasionally my mouth!!

       •Thread Starter
     

    6/12/2013 7:31 PM  #15

    josh-kebob
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    From: Madison, AL
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    Re: front springs???

    occasionally???????!!!!!!!!!!! .......now that there is funny, i don't care who ya R.....

     

    6/12/2013 8:37 PM  #16

    terry
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    Re: front springs???

    now i'm never gonna laugh again!!

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    6/12/2013 8:54 PM  #17

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
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    Re: front springs???

    And remember... He had those bearing plates so the wheels could move easily side to side as the suspension travels up and down.  You will have to roll the car around to see if it changes the height.  Or, I think it might have been Musted once suggested two pieces of 12" square linoeum tiles under each front wheel with grease between the two tiles to make them slide.  If I gave credit for that incorrectly, I will be forced to take two breaths of Illinois winter air.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    6/12/2013 8:59 PM  #18

    steve s.
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    From: Nashville TN
    Registered: 5/10/2013
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    Re: front springs???

    did you replace the spring perches? mine did weird stuff like that up front until i replaced those. you could pull the front up, push it down etc & the ride height would change side to side. one time the left would be 1/2" higher than the right, next time right would be 3/4" higher than the left etc. put a set of roller perches in from opentracker &  have no more issues.

     

    6/12/2013 9:51 PM  #19

    Daze
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    From: Kalispell MT
    Registered: 1/24/2013
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    Re: front springs???

    I agree with MS sounds like LCA bushings.  was the car at ride height when you torqued the LCA bushings??  also do you have adjustable strut rods if so to much caster will bind rubber bushings.

    If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     

    6/13/2013 6:26 AM  #20

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
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    Re: front springs???

    steve, I have a set of Daze's roller perches on there so dont think thats it!.

    Daze, Yes I had weight on the tires when I tightened the Lower cotrol arm bolt.  I do not have adjustable strut rods, I didnt get a print out but the tech yesterday said he didnt get as much caster as the spec sheet called for.  he said he was out of bolt length to put enough shims to get that amount of caster.  I still go back to when I put the LCAs on, i remember it was real tight between the frame when I put those on.  I had the LCA swung down when I put the bolts in and when I pulled it up to attach it to the spindle if I let go the LCA would stay there, the weight should have made it drop.          I am going to check the sway bushings first

    I may next week take and compress the springs and see if i can  move the entire spindle and control arms up and down??

       •Thread Starter
     

    6/13/2013 11:09 AM  #21

    terry
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    From: vandalia, illinois
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    Re: front springs???

    well today I took the sway bar bushings off and lubed them, put back on and no help.  I then took the LCA bolt loose and bounced it a few times, I then sprayed the rubbers in the LCA with a silicone spray lube.  I tightened the LCA bolt back up and took it for a spin!!  The front end raises up like it should when I tickle the carb with my toes. AND best of all it levels out WITHOUT having to tap the brakes!  I have fought this for a month and have done everything that I did today EXCEPT for the silicone. thanks for the advice and help and thank the Lord for my piece of mind!!

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    6/13/2013 11:22 AM  #22

    josh-kebob
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    From: Madison, AL
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    Re: front springs???

    congrats t......feels good when you get it fixed.......now go drive the fire out of that fastback....

     

     

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