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9/17/2016 8:46 PM  #1


Truetrac

Im getting ready to fix/replace my 9" third member, it a 31 spline with 3.5 gears. Im leaning towards truetrac one. Does anyone know if theres a kit that comes with everything im going to need to do the swap, im planning on keeping the gears, im running a t45 5 speed trans. How difficult is to do the conversion.

 

9/18/2016 3:39 AM  #2


Re: Truetrac

IMHO, the gear swap should best be left to an experienced technician with the necessary tools.  As far as the Tru Trac is concerned, I have not messed with one in over ten years and would hope that the setup has undergone some improvements.  Really hard to beat a tried and true trak lok or a detroit locker.  There are several build kits on the market with all bearings, shims, gaskets and seals necessary to do the job; however, the bearings are of questionable quality, mostly from overseas.  I have always used USA made Timken bearings and races and have had zero bearing failure in twenty years.  Probably being a little picky, but my guess would be you would want whoever does the work for you to be picky.
Best,
Al


Classic cars are full of surprises and almost none of them are good ones!
 

9/18/2016 4:33 AM  #3


Re: Truetrac

Swapping the differential isn't the same as setting up the gears.  You will not have to touch the pinion, just swap the ring gear onto the new diff and set the backlash.  On a 9" all you will really need new are the carrier bearings, and that's just because you won't be able to get the old ones off your existing diff.  As for tools, you need a dial indicator and magnetic base to measure backlash, and you need the tool to spin the side adjusters, but you can just make one from a couple bolts that fit the holes and a length of bar stock as a handle.  I still use the dial indicator and magnetic base I bought from Harbor Freight for which I had to make a bracket to get the indicator to mate with the base, but I've been using it for like 15 years and it cost me maybe $35.

You can check the gear pattern if you really want to, but seeing as the gears are used I would only look at the coast pattern. 

 

9/18/2016 7:12 PM  #4


Re: Truetrac

When I just add a limited slip or locker to a rear, I usually check pattern before disassembly so I have an idea where it is if the customer does not have any noise or other complaints. Then as TKO says change it out and set the backlash with the dial indicator. A quick check of the pattern after that is grounds to sleep well at night if it looks close to the before one.

 

9/19/2016 6:51 AM  #5


Re: Truetrac

Hmn, that's a good idea I never thought of...

 

9/19/2016 8:10 AM  #6


Re: Truetrac

I have two PDF documents that I used when I installed my TruTrac that were a big help and the service manuals are also helpful.  If interested send me your email in a message and I'll pass them on.  Check your pinion bearings and pinion seal.  This is the time to change if there is any wear or leaks but you will be removing the pinion.  If you assemble with the same shims, etc., you should be back to a basic carrier replacement without a complex gear pattern setup.  The TruTrac may use different cups and cones as compared to your old unit and the directions are clear on the correct part numbers - Timken is a good recommendation.  If you don't have the tools to properly install the new bearings a local machine shop can do this quickly and cheaply (as long as hammers are not involved).  I did two units at the same time and on one the adjusters were a mess but I was able to clean them up with some patience.  Be careful with the threads when installing and make sure that they move properly.  You will need to turn them to adjust and also preload the bearings and if they are banged up you will be fighting the backlash check process.  I really liked the TruTrac unit.

 

9/19/2016 8:38 AM  #7


Re: Truetrac

Actually there's nothing wrong with installing bearings with a hammer.  I did this for years before I owned a press.  Use brass drifts and drive only on the bearing's inner race.  I never had a problem with a trans, t-case, or rear I built this way.  Its a good way to go if you don't have need of a press often.  Eventually I purchased a Harbor Freight press that I now use. 

 

9/19/2016 9:17 AM  #8


Re: Truetrac

Working for a bearing manufacturer, I'd like to thank you for your advice to use hammers to install bearings.  We sell a lot more bearings that way.  Always use the proper tools/techniques when installing bearings to obtain maximum life and minimize premature failure.  Hammers and drifts don't fall into the classification of proper tools/techniques.

 

9/19/2016 9:41 AM  #9


Re: Truetrac

You're welcome.  You don't get any repeat business from me because I've never had a failure of any bearing I've ever installed.  Like most things in life there are multiple ways to achieve the same result.  Also, as with most things, the skill of the person doing the work means a hell of a lot more than the tool they use.  I learned how to use hammers and drifts from an old mechanic who serviced fighter aircraft during WWII.  Yes, it shocked the hell out of me the first time I saw him do it, but after watching him it made perfect sense. 

A brass drift isn't going to hurt a bearing, unless you smash the cage like an idiot.  You drive the bearing on evenly, side to side.  In inexperienced hands its actually safer, because even a small shop press generates 5-20 tons of force and its easy to damage things with that kind of force.  When you drive a bearing on you don't have near that much force at your disposal, so if it gets cocked, or something else isn't right (fit is too tight, etc.) you have a chance to correct it, whereas with a press you might well not feel the problem and push right past it damaging the parts in the process.  There was an article in the March 2016 issue of Classic Auto Restorer about this exact problem, where the author damaged a rare and hard to get part for one of his cars with a shop press. 

Presses are faster, and I think I paid all of $90 for mine at HF, but if I was stuck and didn't have a press I wouldn't hesitate for a second to drive a bearing on the way I did years ago when I couldn't afford a press or to pay someone to press stuff together for me.  I think I paid $10 for a set of brass drifts.  They get chewed up, bent, etc., you just grind them true again or bend them back straight.  They last fairly long, in fact I still have most of that first set I bought. 

 

9/19/2016 10:03 AM  #10


Re: Truetrac

Thank you all for your quick replies. Tkoperf, Gpatric, DC and AlNewman. Great forum as always. I think im going to buy the truetrack online and just look for the seals and timiken bearings ill need locally.

     Thread Starter
 

9/19/2016 10:05 AM  #11


Re: Truetrac

It must be hard to be the smartest guy on the site.  All my years of experience are now down the drain.  All I offered was some advice to 65svt based on my own experience with a TruTrac install and now you are dragging this out as usual - with bad recommendations to boot.  You have managed to do what Barnett failed to do....

 

9/19/2016 12:59 PM  #12


Re: Truetrac

I have used various methods of seating bearings hammer, arbour press and hydraulic press.  Most have been with using a socket that is just a tad smaller in diameter than the bearing.
  A lot of times it is not practical to use a hydraulic press, a hammer with the correctly sized driver might be the only alternative. I think HF makes a neat set of aluminum drivers that would be an inexpensive way to put bearings in.
 The important thing with any method  is to make sure the bearing goes in straight.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

9/19/2016 1:05 PM  #13


Re: Truetrac

GPatrick I had a great sarcastic comment but I'll take the high road, because sarcasm and personal attacks don't help the OP.  It is possible for people, even people of great experience and skill, to have different opinions.  If you want to claim you absolutely must always press on bearings go right ahead.  I'm not going to, because I've done it another way and had nothing but success.  But I'm done arguing about it because I don't need you to be wrong so I can be right. 

Sorry 65svt, I hope you got what you needed.  I should mention, it should go without saying, but when you install new bearings on the new differential be sure to pair them with new races.  I re-read this whole thread and realized I wasn't specific about that. 

 

9/19/2016 5:59 PM  #14


Re: Truetrac

I think I have to agree with Gary on installing bearings. Using a hammer and a drift does damage the bearing if only microscopically. Just because it did not fail during the time you were using it, you most likely shortened the ultimate lifespan of the bearing.

Everybody knows I have a few tricks up my sleeve that involve hammers, but forcing a bearing onto a shaft with one is not one I would want to do.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/19/2016 7:06 PM  #15


Re: Truetrac

I have to respectfully disagree.  There's simply no way a brass drift is going to do damage to a bearing.  A steel drift maybe, but not brass; its too soft and will simply deform before damaging anything.  I've rears with over 100k on them that I rebuilt this way over a decade ago with no issues, transmissions used in racing applications where if something was going to fail it would, yet not a single failure. 

If the concern is uneven application of force, you are more likely to do that with a press, because most of the cheap presses we all use aren't really true.  It's easy to start a bearing cocked if you're not careful.  You can't start a bearing with a drift cocked; it simply won't go on like that. 

If the concern is impact stress, again, brass vs. steel; steel wins.

I get it, it seems like a hillbilly way to install bearings, some ham fisted guy whacking them on with a hammer.  You simply have to look past that as I did when I first saw it done, and consider what's really going on.  The guy I learned it from knew a hell of a lot more than I did at the time, probably still does, but I can tell you, everything he ever fixed stayed that way, and everything he ever told me was right from this up to how to drive a Model T.  It wasn't that he didn't have a press; he had like three, one the size of a truck.  But at 17, as now, I came to the conclusion that a guy who was 50+ years older than me, and had been a mechanic for most of that time probably knew more than I did.  So I stand by the method I learned from a guy who never once steered me wrong. 

 

9/19/2016 8:44 PM  #16


Re: Truetrac

Let's approach this from a different angle. We are attempting to help someone who has never done this before to install a new bearing. They do not have fifty years of experience, nor do they likely have much experience installing bearings.

Would it not be prudent to suggest using normally acceptable methods in a controlled fashion to get the job done?  Using a press allows control of the operation, and also requires some skill and knowledge as to what is going on in the process. But it is a process that can be done incrementally with someone having very little experience operating the press. And nothing gets hammered on to provide stress risers or damaged surfaces.
Considering the context of this information, it makes more sense to me to suggest using accepted methods rather than attempting to pass on tribal knowledge when not there in person to supervise the learning process.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/19/2016 10:09 PM  #17


Re: Truetrac

Cannot argue with the differing logic expressed above, but might I suggest once more that the job be done by someone with experience and the correct tools, whatever they may be.  I've set races both ways with success, so the argument posed is really picking at nits, which only serves to confuse some avid hobbyist. Presses, properly used, seem to be preferential, but brass drifts are an essential in my tool box.  You cannot go wrong with the wisdom of tko or ms.  I have never had serious issue with their posts.  Mostly just boils dowm to preference.
Best,
Al


Classic cars are full of surprises and almost none of them are good ones!
 

9/19/2016 11:45 PM  #18


Re: Truetrac

Al Newman wrote:

Cannot argue with the differing logic expressed above, but might I suggest once more that the job be done by someone with experience and the correct tools, whatever they may be.  I've set races both ways with success, so the argument posed is really picking at nits, which only serves to confuse some avid hobbyist. Presses, properly used, seem to be preferential, but brass drifts are an essential in my tool box.  You cannot go wrong with the wisdom of tko or ms.  I have never had serious issue with their posts.  Mostly just boils dowm to preference.
Best,
Al

 "Picking at nits".......I love it!!!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

9/20/2016 4:32 AM  #19


Re: Truetrac

Al comes in as the voice of reason!

For someone with no experience I'd suggest just paying someone to do it I think.  What's it going to cost to have two bearings pressed on?  $50?  That's the safest of all bets for sure.

On the other hand, you never gain any experience by not trying anything new.  That's a judgement call we all have to make at some point on our various projects.  I've never been afraid to try something new for fear of screwing it up.  I believe that if you show me someone who's never made a mistake I'll show you someone who's never learned anything.  I've screwed up plenty, and learned plenty from it.  So the question is, if you want to learn to do something new is it worth a $90 investment in a tool you may never used again to learn it?  On the other hand, for $10 you can have a method that works for the rare occasion when you need to do it.  I promise its not that hard.  If you can properly install a seal using the same method you can install a bearing. 

 

9/20/2016 8:13 AM  #20


Re: Truetrac

Before I had a press, I had lots of bearings pressed on at various places. Only once had to pay anything. The best trick was to send my daughter down the street to a local shop with stuff in her wagon and they never charged her a thing! And yes I too had to use any method possible a few times and never had a problem, but that was usually along side the road in the middle of the night. Once I had to take a chisel and rub it's edge off on a curb at a pull off along the Ohio Turnpike to seat some new front wheel bearing races. If there is access to a press, that is the way!

 

9/20/2016 7:19 PM  #21


Re: Truetrac

Having worked for John Deere for nearly 30 years now I will offer up the way JD recommended to install axle bearings and transmission bearings, it is by heating the bearing to 350 degrees either in oil or a toaster oven, we used a deep fryer for many years until one of the techs spilled hot oil over his hand, luckily he was not burned more than like a slight sunburn, then we went to the toaster oven, granted this will not work for sealed bearings but it works great for Timken tapered bearings. 


The amount of fun is directly proportionate to the damage done.
 

9/21/2016 6:50 AM  #22


Re: Truetrac

That made me think of something.

I can just see this at the Texas State Fair next year...  DEEP FRIED MUFFLER BEARINGS...  

Those people will deep fry ANYTHING!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/21/2016 7:54 AM  #23


Re: Truetrac

Served with a side of headlight fluid.

 

9/21/2016 8:40 AM  #24


Re: Truetrac

I remember the first time I heard of exhaust fluid (which is a real thing for some diesels).  At first I thought someone was yanking my chain kinda like a muffler bearing or headlight fluid.

 

9/21/2016 9:19 AM  #25


Re: Truetrac

My car never ran as good and sounded better after I replaced the O/E muffler bearing. Also I found that sauteing them gave a mellower sound than deep frying.

 


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

Board footera


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