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1966 Mustang Coupe, 1988 5.0 HO Swap, T5z
I got a good look at my rear suspension while running the tail light section of the wiring harness. Leaf springs have a lot of rust, bushings are cracked and crumbling, one of the shocks seems blown. This explains the horrible wheel hop I was getting and uneven ride height.
Good thing is there seems to be good amount of kits for replacement suspension in the $500-$700 range.
Can someone explain the 4, 4-1/2, 5 leaf springs? What is the mid eye, reverse eye, standard eye? I have air shocks for some reason. Don't know why someone put them in but they are there. Is that normal? The kit I am looking at looks like standard shocks. I aiming for a comfortable ride that works w/ 17 inch wheels. Not taking this to the track.
thanks
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I believe mid-eye and reverse-eye are for lowering without the use of lowering blocks.
Stock is 4-leaf. I believe 4.5 leaf and 5 leaf are to get a stiffer spring rate.
I put stock replacement springs on my '67 coupe (standard eye, 4-leaf) and I am happy with them...but I'm only running 16 inch wheels... not sure if that matters.
Air shocks are definitely not normal...someone probably added them to lift the rear end, but that should really be done with springs, not shocks. Given enough time air shocks typically destroy the upper shock mount because they weren't intended to support the entire weight of the rear of the car and they get over-stressed.
Last edited by Michael H. (4/04/2017 9:09 AM)
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As Michael says, the various spring eye positions are for adjusting ride height. Some cars set perfect with standard eye springs and some need some help to get the stance where you want it. Ours was okay with standard 4 leaf springs but liked to sag a bit with a trunk full of luggage. I went to the 4 1/2 leaf and kept the standard eye and it went higher than a kite in the butt-end. So now I have a 1.25 inch lowering block. Eventually I'll install new 4 1/2 leaf / reverse eye spings without the lowering block and see what happens. They are all different and it seems that the springs vary with mfg.
Also like Michael says, the air shocks are a bandaid on Mustangs. They were originally designed to help offset additional load but a lot of guys stuck them in to correct worn out springs. Get good springs and good shackles and scrap the air shocks.
Also #2: The 4 1/2 leaf springs seem to do a good job of containing wheel hop if you are burn-out type. I think MS removed the T-bars and went to 4 1/2 leaf and I know his 427 will burn 'em.
Good luck,
BB
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Ditch the air shocks. Just get regular KYB, Billstein, etc.
The eye location of the spring is exactly as Michael H said, to provide a lower ride height with the same spring rate. Stock springs have the eyes wrapped upward from the main leaf. If you move the eye to the middle of the leaf or the bottom you lower the ride height.
Adding leafs or half leaves are to stiffen the spring rate, usually in the interest of improving handling, but it can also be to reduce the chance of bottoming the suspension when a lowered car hits a bad bump.
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Has someone figured out a way to calculate ride height with the changes? Is there a standard? What is stock?
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Probably really hard to figure out now. Stock leaf springs are standard eye (eyes wrapped upward from the main leaf) with 4 leaves with stock spring shackles. It was popular at one time to jack up the back end of the car to get what many loathingly refer to as "stinkbug stance". This was often accomplished with longer spring shackles, air shocks, etc. Then lowering became popular, often taken too far. A lot of the time guys would just use blocks to lower the rear end, by spacing the axle housing upwards off the springs. Blocks are pretty mickey mouse, so smarter guys started dearching the springs (reducing the arch for the same spring rate, but a lower ride height), and eventually aftermarket companies responded with mid eye and reverse eye springs so guys could buy them off the shelf instead of having to find a good spring shop that could monkey with the packs.
I would say your best bet is to talk to people who have similar cars and what they've done spring wise to achieve a certain look. This way you can hopefully buy parts once and be happy.
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On a 66 with 245x45/17 rear wheels, if you use the 4 leaf reverse eye spring, there will be 1/4" to 1/2" between the top of the tire and the wheel opening. In my opinion, perfect.
Also, see the Mustangasteve RIDE HEIGHT page which was published for this purpose. Link is at top of forum.
I just did a 68 coupe with same tire and spring and got same result.
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I'm kinda old skool .. I think!(I know I'm old and I went to school soooo you figure it out) anyway......I like the rear a little higher than the front. "California rake"...swat-eye always called it. Heck far BulletBob/RPM.....ya'll from California...IS it a California Rake?!
I have the 4 leaf standard eye and when I hit a dip(especially with Mochaman in the pass seat!) I get a little scrub from rear tire. (215-65-15) Shocks are old though.
I would go with the 4.5 standard eye if I did it again butt..........Tubo made me a smok'in deal on these so...........hay!
6s6
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Hey now. I blame the old shocks instead of my superior girth.
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Mochaman wrote:
superior girth.
No doubt that super-duper spaghetti sauce your cuter half can whoop up! Had some the other day......even better with some age-on-it.
6s6
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6sally6 wrote:
I'm kinda old skool .. I think!(I know I'm old and I went to school soooo you figure it out) anyway......I like the rear a little higher than the front. "California rake"...swat-eye always called it. Heck far BulletBob/RPM.....ya'll from California...IS it a California Rake?!
I have the 4 leaf standard eye and when I hit a dip(especially with Mochaman in the pass seat!) I get a little scrub from rear tire. (215-65-15) Shocks are old though.
I would go with the 4.5 standard eye if I did it again butt..........Tubo made me a smok'in deal on these so...........hay!
6s6
We never gave it a name other than "rake" when I was growing up in SoCal. Always lower the front. Never raise the rear (only twerps did that). You can also lower the rear as long as it remained above the front. A tire rake counts too. The photo does not show it but mine is down both in front and rear with front a little lower.
Last edited by lowercasesteve (4/04/2017 10:46 PM)
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Mochaman wrote:
Hey now. I blame the old shocks instead of my superior girth.
I would blame the installation of wheels with the wrong offset and tires that don't clear the fenders!
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Here is a pic of the 68 with the following:
REAR
4 leaf reverse eye springs (Day one of install, may settle a little)
KYB Gas A Just shocks
17x8 wheel with 4.5" backspacing
245x45/17 tire
(note: Used 65 8" rear axle that is 2" narrower than a 68 axle, to get proper tire clearance)
FRONT
Shelby drop
One coil removed from spring
KYB Gas A Just shocks
17x7 wheel with 4.25" backspacing
225x45/17 tire
(note: this is a six cylinder car - V8 height may vary, but from my experience, it will be about the same with a 289 or 302)
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MS wrote:
On a 66 with 245x45/17 rear wheels, if you use the 4 leaf reverse eye spring, there will be 1/4" to 1/2" between the top of the tire and the wheel opening. In my opinion, perfect.
Also, see the Mustangasteve RIDE HEIGHT page which was published for this purpose. Link is at top of forum.
I just did a 68 coupe with same tire and spring and got same result.
Fantastic. Just looked over the page. I'll be sure to add my ride to the collection when the time comes. I'm eyeballing 4.5 leaf springs w/ reverse eye and regular shocks. thanks
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That's a fine lookin' coupe', MS. Sure do like those wheels.
BB
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TremendousWand wrote:
Has someone figured out a way to calculate ride height with the changes? Is there a standard? What is stock?
There is no way to calculate ride height as they were all over the place stock. Some came with nice rakes on them and some looked like boats going down the street.
Here is mine now.
Front - 215-55-16. Shelby drop. 1" lowering GT springs
Rear - 225-55x16. 4 leaf. reverse eye springs.
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MS - Where do you buy your 4 leaf reverse eye springs?
Thanks, Jim
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The set that are waiting for me to bolt them in came from Mustangs Plus.
BB
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CJ Pony sells a reverse eye, 4-1/2 leaf spring. From my own observation and reading a dozen different post seems to be 4-1/2 is the way to go and 5 leaf was really stiff for most people. Also, found several people who resorted to lowering block after using a stock replacement spring. It seems that original mustangs (which was well before my time) sat much higher than people realize and that most images of mustangs are either lowered or are sagging giving the impression that the original/ stock ride height was lower than it actually was. This makes sense to me. Again, this is my consensus opinion from my "research".
Last edited by TremendousWand (4/06/2017 11:59 AM)
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Here is a picture of my '67 coupe with standard-eye 4-leaf springs.
The front suspension has the Arning/Shelby drop and stock replacement GT coil springs.
Last edited by Michael H. (4/06/2017 12:48 PM)
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Here's our 65FB. Original 50 year old front GT springs, no Arning/Shelby drop. MustangsPlus 4 leaf mideye leafs in the rear. This pic was taken about a month after the springs were installed. The rear has settled about 1/2 inch since. Tires are closest size to the originals: 215/70/14's. Bilstein street version shocks at all 4 corners. Rides like you're on a cloud and my back loves it.
You will note that not everyone gets it to their taste the first try. I would also like to add that I have seen BB's 66 up close and personal, and imho, there is NOTHING mickey mouse about anything on that car. His dedication to making everything exactly to his standard is very motivating to me.
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Since I have gotten good consistent results from them, I buy my rear springs from Mustangs Plus.
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Thanks. Sounds like Mustangs plus is the place. I bought reverse eyes from them 15 years ago for my Cougar. Sounds like it is still the place to go.
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What is this???! Show-me-yours....Show-you-mine!?
This is mine with stock (replacement) 4 leaf springs and "original" front springs with 1 coil removed and the Shelby drop and then a poly1" spring isolation pad added to the top of spring. Rear is "maybe" 2 inches higher than front.
Last edited by 6sally6 (4/07/2017 8:24 PM)
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6sally6 wrote:
What is this???! Show-me-yours....Show-you-mine!?
Well, yeah!...kinda... It's hard to get a sense of stance and ride height without pictures.
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