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4/12/2017 1:33 AM  #1


Humid climate and classic cars

We are retiring to the gulf coast later this summer. I've noticed very few homes with shops.  Any reason? I can built a shop,but what are the concerns for humidity?  Most self-appointed experts say air flow with dehumidifier set to below 60. What have others living in Florida to Mississippi found most helpful? I refuse to sell my 65 conv GT, 66 Resto mod, the 54 five window, or the kxr supercharged conv jag. I drive these regularly. Thx for sharing your experiences.


Parkinson's, it's not just for old folks
 

4/12/2017 5:09 AM  #2


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

I would advise making your shop as airtight as possible (best insulation you can afford, spray foam is best but pricey) and installing a good HVAC system.  A lot of what the AC portion does is dehumidification.  You could take it to another level by adding a dehumidifier to the system as well, or if you go with a heat pump the higher end ones have a dehumidification feature built in and will use the AC side to draw moisture out of the air, even when you are at or below your set temperature.  I installed a pair of large AC units in my shop last year, and I wish I'd done it 20 years ago.  It makes working on everything so much easier and it takes far less of a toll on you when you aren't sweating buckets.  Plus I noticed in high humidity paint would often not cure right.  It would end up with a hazy look to it and I'd have to redo it. 

 

4/12/2017 5:51 AM  #3


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

In your original post you mention Florida to Mississippi, you better add Texas!!  After our trip to the bash in Wimberly in 2015!!  Gives a new meaning to HUMID!!

 

 

4/12/2017 8:43 AM  #4


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

I live in south Mississippi about an hour's drive from the gulf coast.
As nice as it would be to have A/C in my shop I only know one local guy who does, because of the expense...Not just installation expense, but also the electrical expense of running the A/C unit to keep the shop cooled. 
Everybody else I know that have shops (including me) just insulate them to keep them from causing condensation and dripping from the ceiling.  Honestly, even though it still gets really humid, rust stays to a minimum except for bare metal, which will flash rust pretty quickly.

 

4/12/2017 10:52 AM  #5


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

Depending on your proximity to the coast, a hurricane or tropical storm and the aftermath that goes with them may cause more damage than humidity.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

4/12/2017 11:10 AM  #6


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

Bolted to Floor wrote:

Depending on your proximity to the coast, a hurricane or tropical storm and the aftermath that goes with them may cause more damage than humidity.

Very true.  Even an hour inland from the Gulf Coast, Hurricane Katrina leveled hundreds of homes around where I live back in 2005 (hard to believe it's been that long).
 

 

4/12/2017 11:22 AM  #7


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

scott66 wrote:

Most self-appointed experts say air flow with dehumidifier set to below 60.

By the way... this is unrealistic in the deep south.  My mom has a dehumidifier in her house.  In the summer, even with the a/c running (which also dehumidifies some) she sets it to 80% humidity and has to empty it 3 or more times per day.  When it's 98% humidity outside you can forget getting below 60% humidity in your shop.

 

4/12/2017 1:49 PM  #8


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

A tight insulated building will slow the temperature change inside down quite a bit which will help eliminate a lot of condensation. Just don't open the doors when the temps are a lot different. Especially if it is cooler inside the building and you flood the building with warm humid air you will have a lot of condensation all over everything. I even get drops of water forming on the concrete floor. 

 

4/12/2017 4:21 PM  #9


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

My electric bill increased by all of $20/month when I started running the AC.  That's two units running full bore (I don't use a t-stat I just turn them on and off with a breaker) in a 44x36 shop with a 14.5' ceiling.  Now, a caveat, that's only running about 1-2 hours a night a couple days a week and maybe 6 hours over the weekends.  But that's also when it was 90+ and super high humidity (80-90%).  My shop is not terribly thermally efficient either.  It has blown cellulose insulation in the attic (probably an R-30 if I'm generous) and R-11 batts in the walls.  It wasn't built to be insulated, conditioned, etc.  Its pretty much a pole barn that's been upgraded over the years to make it a better and better shop.  If I could clean sheet design a new shop I'd be able to heat it with a candle and cool it with a cup of ice and a fan.

Its all about how much you're going to use it and how energy efficient it is.  My setup makes it quite comfortable when I'm up there working, and I don't run anything when I'm not.   My normal electric bill is about $14/month, and I saw it jump to $34/month in the summer with the AC.  I go through two 100lb propane cylinders every 2-3 years for heat (price fluctuates, I've paid over $600 to have them filled and $260 to have them filled depending on the year). 

If you're not going to keep it conditioned all the time, or vary the temp when its not in use don't bother with a heat pump.  They work best over a very narrow .5-1 degree temp difference.  The mini splits are a good choice too (Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, etc.), and very efficient.  Or you could just get a regular indoor outdoor system that's high efficiency (95%, don't go any higher you'll never recoup the cost difference in energy savings). 

Like I said though, insulation is key in the walls, attic, and under the slab.  Keep windows to a minimum (a typical window has an R value of like 3 to maybe 6 for a really good one).  Garage doors can be had with varying degrees of insulation, but they leak a lot of air due to the seal design so its best to keep them small and open them as little as possible.  That's one reason why shops tend not to run AC, because with the amount the doors go up and down it never stays cool anyway, and you're basically paying to air condition the outside. 

 

4/12/2017 7:13 PM  #10


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

When I lived in Charleston, SC ......August-September-October..gave a new meaning to the word Humidity! ( a "humid day" is defined as...when the humidity exceeds the temperature by 20 points! ex. temp=75*....humidity=95%)
I worked on my Mustang in one side of a two car garage year round with no/mirror rust/dampness issues. No AC! Too expensive to get it cool enough to do any good!  Open the doors....take off most of your clothes....run as many fans as you had! (Drink beer....switch to menthols !!)
Seriously... you won't have any issues  with your "toys" if the concrete floor has a vapor barrier and the walls are insulated. Both of which are required by code.
Your floor IS concrete, right?!!  Those Florida builders????? ( ;
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

4/12/2017 8:35 PM  #11


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

Vapor barrier under the slab is very important. Start from the ground and work your way up.

Tubo, our next bash host in Ft Walton Beach Florida (we do remember Tubo, don't we?  Anyone...anyone?...) was telling me a while back about how he could go out to his closed garage in the morning and his 65 fastback would be covered inside and out with condensation.

I know he built a new shop specifically to eliminate that problem. Maybe he will chime in and tell us how it worked out.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/13/2017 4:05 AM  #12


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

I've never seen condensation on anything in my shop, and I've been up there plenty of mornings where everything outside had condensation on it.  Not sure why that is, as I said its not terribly thermally efficient, and I'd be surprised if it even had vapor barrier under the slab.

Speaking of which, most vapor barrier is 6 mil polyethylene.  Fine for the first 5-10 years, but having demolished many an older building I can tell you that the stuff becomes brittle and fails in fairly short order.  There are better options now (Stegowrap for example) that are more costly, but will not break down over time, ensuring the vapor barrier integrity lasts.  Like I said, if I could clean sheet a new shop I'd do a lot of things differently. 

Curious everyone keeps saying AC is too expensive, but has anyone actually tried it?  I had that misconception initially too, but knowing what I know now I wish I'd done it a long time ago.  I got the units for free (had some cost in removing them from the building they were in and installing them in my shop, all told about $700).  In terms of cooling they would take a 90 degree shop down to 70 in a hour, plus removing a ton of humidity in the process and making it much, much more comfortable to work. 

 

4/13/2017 8:51 AM  #13


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

I haven't tried A/C, but if he's wanting to use A/C to keep humidity down he would have to run it all the time... not just when he was working in the shop, which is what you're describing.  However, I am still shocked at how little it costs you to run A/C when working in your shop.  I may have to rethink A/C in mine.

I've never seen condensation on anything in my shop either... Good insulation and a vapor barrier under the slab will help prevent this.  I will say that even with the vapor barrier on REALLY humid mornings the slab gets damp looking in some spots, but I've never seen any moisture beaded up.
I've been to other shops around here with no insulation and seen condensation dripping from the ceiling in the early mornings.

 

4/13/2017 12:11 PM  #14


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

TKOPerformance wrote:

I've never seen condensation on anything in my shop,

Curious everyone keeps saying AC is too expensive, but has anyone actually tried it?  

Where is your shop located? Location has a lot to do with initial and operating costs.
Thank God Cali doesn't have much humidity. But in California is not the humidity, is the stupidly.
 

Last edited by rpm (4/13/2017 12:13 PM)


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

4/13/2017 1:31 PM  #15


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

In Michigan, we get a lot of condensation because we have a lot of days when the temp swings 40 to 50 degrees. I put a vapor barrier under my garage floor when I built my garage almost 50 years ago. The floor still sweats when the temp goes from 30's or 40's at night to 70's and 90's in the daytime on humid days. Everything else in the garage sweats too. My wife opens the door to get her car out and all that warmer humid air rolls in and the water rolls right out of the air onto everything. Now, had I air conditioned the garage, it still would have happened every time the doors were opened. So, I put in a beer cooler instead!

 

4/13/2017 9:33 PM  #16


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

rpm wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

I've never seen condensation on anything in my shop,

Curious everyone keeps saying AC is too expensive, but has anyone actually tried it?  

Where is your shop located? Location has a lot to do with initial and operating costs.
Thank God Cali doesn't have much humidity. But in California is not the humidity, is the stupidly.
 

I'm in Delaware.  We've already seen a couple days in the 80s in April.  In the summer its not uncommon to get weeks at time in the 90s, and we do get some brutal humidity.Thankfully it not every summer, but every couple of years we will get a heat wave where the temperatures are close to 100 for a week or more and sometimes they top 100.  During those times a heat index of 105 or more is the order of the day.

 

4/13/2017 9:36 PM  #17


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

Michael H. wrote:

I haven't tried A/C, but if he's wanting to use A/C to keep humidity down he would have to run it all the time... not just when he was working in the shop, which is what you're describing.  However, I am still shocked at how little it costs you to run A/C when working in your shop.  I may have to rethink A/C in mine.

I've never seen condensation on anything in my shop either... Good insulation and a vapor barrier under the slab will help prevent this.  I will say that even with the vapor barrier on REALLY humid mornings the slab gets damp looking in some spots, but I've never seen any moisture beaded up.
I've been to other shops around here with no insulation and seen condensation dripping from the ceiling in the early mornings.

With some HVAC systems you can set the AC to run based on humidity as well as temperature, so when you aren't using the shop you could just set it based on humidity.  It will run a lot less like that.  You can run a big dehumidifier too, but I've found they put out a lot of heat drying out the air, so the reduction in humidity is great, but the increased temperature might actually make it more uncomfortable than doing nothing.

 

4/14/2017 3:00 AM  #18


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

Hey TKO I've been up in Delaware Built a power plant in Dover a few years back, but the only humidity I had to deal with was white, Must'a been wrong time of the year LOL, Any way I live just north of Biloxi/Gulfport Mississippi say about 14 miles north of the beach and its 98% humidity 98 deg. no rain in sight, AC would be nice in the shop but it cost me around $350 per month to keep the lights on and my head cool in a 2000sq ft. house. I do believe you have a more gentle Utility than we do.


I made enough money to buy Miami, but pissed it away so fast
 

4/14/2017 6:11 AM  #19


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

Wow, and here I thought Delmarva was raping us all...
 

 

4/19/2017 10:29 PM  #20


Re: Humid climate and classic cars

thanks to all of you!  sounds like it starts with proper construction, proper insulation, and small openings.  at least i didn't see any horror stories, other than working on the car without clothing, lol!  And I agree, the proper beer at the proper temp would certainly help!
Regarding Texas, I had to cross it off the list (although it's our type of political climate) after I walked across the parking lot in South Padre at 7 am.....and needed to dry off before getting into the car.  Wow!! 


Parkinson's, it's not just for old folks
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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