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OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!!
Love the color
6s6
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Yet another picture for my collection.. sorry, but that is NOT a classic Mustang. Where the hell is this hobby headed?
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Yeah butt..........look at the tail lights! 65/66!!
That makes it a classic.........right?!!
6s6
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I liked it. Hoonicorn has his four wheel monster as well.
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Classics are awesome but I also love the direction this vintage passion has taken. Another
form of resurrecting and improving on a true masterpiece. The beauty is to see young people
preferring this choice over torque steering high po 4cylinder missiles....
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To each his own. I hope that car was built from something mundane and basically worthless, but in the end its his car and he can do what he wants with it I suppose.
There's nothing wrong with 4 cylinder missiles, so long as they have AWD...
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An old Meyer Drake turbo 4 cylinder would be off the chart cool.
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I think Offenhauser had input into those too. I seem to recall reading about the Offy/Meyer/Drake turbo 4s that made like 1,000 HP.
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Yes, Fred Offenhauser was involved. He bought the design at Harry Miller's bankruptcy in 1933. Miller designed the engine in the '20s. Later Meyer, Drake, and Van Dyne continued to develop the engine. There are still dirt track classes in the midwest that use the "Offy" 4 cylinder
Think how that would look in a 65 Coupe!
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It would look like that new four cylinder turbo Mustang that was in the show today. like half the engine was missing!
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Hornman wrote:
Yes, Fred Offenhauser was involved. He bought the design at Harry Miller's bankruptcy in 1933. Miller designed the engine in the '20s. Later Meyer, Drake, and Van Dyne continued to develop the engine. There are still dirt track classes in the midwest that use the "Offy" 4 cylinder
Think how that would look in a 65 Coupe!
Actually, I believe a gentleman by the name of Leo Goossen was a major player in the design of the Miller engine in the early thirties. He came to Miller when Schoefield failed and was responsible for the design of the Miller-Schofield OHV head for the Model A. That later became the CRAGAR head when the patterns were sold to a guy named Craney Gartz (SP). He was had made a few bux in the plumbing fixture biz (Crane). This all happened deep into the depression. Gartz later sold the patterns for the Cragar head and the rights to the Cragar name to Bell Auto Parts in Bell, CA, if I have my history anywhere near correct.
And speaking of hot 4-bangers. I knew a guy back in my 4-banger days who put a Riley Four Port Model B Ford banger in a Pinto hatchback. Back then a lot of guys were putting Pinto engines in Model A's so he told every one this seemed the cheapest way to go. Hardly! It had a C4 behind it and up to about a hundred or so it would eat just about whatever came along. I recall a guy in a 911 Porsche on Baker grade one year when we were all heading to Vegas to visit Ed Winfield. That guy had never seen a Pinto with torque like that.
BB
Last edited by Bullet Bob (5/13/2017 5:39 PM)
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Torqu-er, huh?!
Does the Offy have long stroke/rods?
Always wondered why...../how...these little 4 bangers made so much power and HOW they stayed together at 8/9 grand??!
6s6
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Mike, I really don't know what the bore/stroke was on the Offys. I know they made some pretty big ones as a 220CI and a 255CI seem to ring a bell. The Ford 1932 Model B (same bore/stroke as a Model A) started life with a 3.875 bore and a 4.250 stroke. We would routinely punch them to 4" (that's .125 over...don't try that with your SBF kids) and end up with 214 CI and the torque was unbelievable. I never took my street "B"s much above 4500 but the race engines that we ran at the drags or at El Mirage would push 5500 or maybe a bit more. On the street we'd use beefed up stock rods but for race we ran 1937 Pontiac 6Cyl rods. Near the end of my time out in SoCal Cooper and Kong started doing everything with insert bearings (instead of babbit) and dip oil on the street engines. The B block pressure fed the mains and cam brgs but used dips on the rod. The inserts worked amazingly well with the dipers...never had one fail as far as I know.
Gettin windy again....gotta go.
BB
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6sally6 wrote:
Torqu-er, huh?!
Does the Offy have long stroke/rods?
Always wondered why...../how...these little 4 bangers made so much power and HOW they stayed together at 8/9 grand??!
6s6
How? It was designed as a racing engine with none of the compromises required by the big 3 bean counters. Long term development; they raced the "Offys" at Indy from the early '20s to the late 60's. The rotating assemblies were balanced to spin them tight: 10,00-12,000 rpm. Lots of turbo boost, up to 30 psig. By their last days at Indy, they were making 3.5-4.0 HP/ cubic inch. Just think about it, the 57 Chebby fuelie motor made 1.0 HP/cu.in and the motoring press hailed it as a milestone event. The "Offy" was making 1.0 HP/cu.in normally aspirated in the 20's.
Bullet Bob,
Harry Miller put one of his engines in an open wheel lakes car in the early 20's and did 151 at Muroc. 151 in the 20's! Not bad for an engine designed as a boat motor.
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MS wrote:
It would look like that new four cylinder turbo Mustang that was in the show today. like half the engine was missing!
I think those new 4 cyl turbos are turning 300 HP!! unbelieveable!!
Sally thanks for sharing that. Some things I like about it and some I don't
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Not really. My '02 WRX made 227HP stock at 2.0 liters, which is 122 cubic inches, or 1.86HP/cubic inch. With a few mild bolt ons (K&N, turbo back exhaust, bigger intercooler, tuning, catless up pipe) it easily made 300HP with the stock turbo, which is 2.46 HP/cubic inch. That's an engine without variable valve timing, variable length intake runners, etc. So to me, making 300HP stock on a turbo 4 should be no problem in 2017, especially when you have a V8 NA engine that's achieving over 100% VE at certain points in its power range.
What you'll find with the old stuff is that a lot was discovered in the first 20 years of the automobile that was then lost and rediscovered often several times from then until now. Those guys in the '20s knew a lot more than you'd think; it just didn't translate into most roadgoing cars. There were always expensive oddballs like the Duesenbergs, etc. that had some cutting edge tech if you could afford it. The technology just wasn't as pervasive then as it is now where every car for example has disc brakes, airbags, etc. Back then there wasn't a big emphasis on safety and efficiency, and there were literally no Federal standards for anything, so there was little to drive it. The guys who were racing were always figuring out how to make engines faster, cars handle better, etc. What's really impressive is what they were able to do with the metallurgy of the day, because piston speed is typically limited by rod material and they didn't have the exotic stuff back then like chromoly, let alone titanium, etc. I can only posit that those Offy/Meyer/Drakes had really short stroke length and likely massive rods to spin that kind of RPM without failure. Getting a turbo to work with a carb is pretty impressive too. Smokey Yunick tried it on his destroked SBC at Indy in the '60s and never could get it quite right. That was a 208 or 209 cubic inch engine making 1,000HP when it was dialed in right, but he had a hell of a time keeping it in calibration and eventually shelved it.
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Not looking too Fast...........just Furious!!
Last edited by 6sally6 (5/14/2017 9:31 PM)
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red351 wrote:
I guess you southern boys never found your beer frozen solid. That's all that look was about......
Yessir Red..........that would be a big fat never!!
Soooooooooooooooooooo whata you do with it??! thaw it out?...let it melt?....make a "slushie"?...put it on a stick and........well never mind
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Beer slushies rule! Wish 7-11 would make that a standard flavor...
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You da man Red!!!!
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